Star Wars TFA vs ANH

A friend of mine referenced a review for the Prequel trilogy in which they compared them to J.J Abrams Star Trek as an example.

In the PT, lets say you have Obi-Wan and Mace Windu talking to each other inside the Jedi Temple. One turns to the other says "Quick, let's hurry out of here." The two actors then slowly shuffle to the left and then the scene ends.

In the new Star Trek, Kirk can say "Let's go!" and then they book down the length of the enterprise, running through doors and passed people and all this.

The reason the Star Wars scene is lifeless is because they are on a green screen location, and there is nowhere to run TO. With Star Trek, there's a lot of practicality there. I think that's something that J.J likewise brought to TFA.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
And you guys wonder why the prequels keep being dissed. FFS Darth Thor LET IT GO. I'm TRYING not to keep ripping the PT but you just can't stop yourself from throwing them back in this.

Firstly I was entering a conversation where queeq was comparing TFA to the Prequels.

Second If you don't know the huge shift TPM made in the special effects industry then don't enter the conversation please.

Originally posted by queeq
Well, it's not. This a SERIES, there's gonna me more. We get an outlook who's gonna be taking us into the future, but we don't know where we 're gonna end up.

And I don't think it works to look at an episode 7 of a series and say: this is what I want to see. Then, if you don't get what you wanted, you'll always be disappointed. Rogue One will surely be the biggest disappointment ever, because there are no Skywalkers in that one. Doesn't mean Rogue One is gonna be crap.

SW is just an adventure film. Just sit back and if you are entertained, then you had a good time. If you don't like it, you're entitled to.

I think it was fun. I, and obviously a lot of critics and a lot of viewers, enjoyed it. Although it's not perfect film, it sure is good popcorn entertainment. Worthy of a second, third and even more viewings. And for me, that means quite a lot.

An outlook is very vague. Especially since it has been 30 years in universe. In 30 years(or thereabouts) we fought 2 world wars.

Well what I wanted from episode VII truly was for my heroes from the OT to still be pretty cool, which is why I would have walked had the film done the whole Luke falling to the Dark side thing some theorized. I'll admit to getting what I wanted in that regard since Luke didn't turn evil. Him, Leia, and Han just turned out to be utterly pathetic and bad at their jobs. They collectively raised a kid that is in some respects worse than Vader(even Luke firmly believed Vader would not kill him whereas Ren stabs his old man because) and the First Order seems more powerful than the Empire of old ever did what with their ability to just produce a Starkiller without them knowing. Leia is still fighting the same war she's been fighting for ages and even when the First Order falls I still won't buy it because the last time it looked done things just got worse. Luke for some insane reason ran and hid instead of dealing with his problems. He doesn't seem like he's been doing much in the interim. And Han? Han is so utterly pathetic that it is actually very sad to watch. He becomes a full blown hero over the course of the OT only to somehow end up being an even more pathetic smuggler with more debt, loses the Falcon, ignores his evil as hell son(and blames Vader for it of all things) until Leia begs him to try and get through to him, and then dies pathetically in a scene that accomplishes nothing except saying "killing your parents isn't fun." It astounds me that for all the people who hate, hate the idea of Han shooting second that those same people don't mind him just tossing Phasma into an easily escapable trash compactor rather than just killing her. Every death caused by Phasma in the future will be Han's fault and the same is true for Kylo Ben. No matter how awesome Han was in ANH, it'll now always come with the caveat that he and his pals failed to create a galaxy I'd like to live in.

So yeah I guess I was disappointed with this film. 👆

I don't know, mate. If you read Han's death scene as accomplishing nothing but stating that "Patricide is fun" you have a poor perception of film and story.

Originally posted by Quincy
I don't know, mate. If you read Han's death scene as accomplishing nothing but stating that "Patricide is fun" you have a poor perception of film and story.

Isn't*

Well I guess his death made a few people sad in universe and it showed Ben that being evil doesn't feel too good...but compared to Ben Kenobi sacrificing himself it is effectively pointless.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
And you guys wonder why the prequels keep being dissed. FFS Darth Thor LET IT GO. I'm TRYING not to keep ripping the PT but you just can't stop yourself from throwing them back in this.

Originally posted by queeq

I think it was fun. I, and obviously a lot of critics and a lot of viewers, enjoyed it. Although it's not perfect film, it sure is good popcorn entertainment. Worthy of a second, third and even more viewings. And for me, that means quite a lot.

Well despite my complaints I think it's good that people who loved the Originals but hated the Prequels generally enjoyed this one. Since for that audience there hasn't been another enjoyable Star Wars movie for over 30 years.

Prequel fans have only waited 10 years so can wait a little longer 😉

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Isn't*

Well I guess his death made a few people sad in universe and it showed Ben that being evil doesn't feel too good...but compared to Ben Kenobi sacrificing himself it is effectively pointless.

Pointless? It was a massive moment in Kylo's arc. It's similar to Luke deciding to spare Vader, except I guess the exact opposite. It's the moment where Kylo take a definitive side and why I believe he will be irredeemable.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Isn't*

Well I guess his death made a few people sad in universe and it showed Ben that being evil doesn't feel too good...but compared to Ben Kenobi sacrificing himself it is effectively pointless.

Kenobi "sacrificing" himself was pointless though. Completely.

Originally posted by ares834
Pointless? It was a massive moment in Kylo's arc. It's similar to Luke deciding to spare Vader, except I guess the exact opposite. It's the moment where Kylo take a definitive side and why I believe he will be irredeemable.

And if he is redeemed? You think Leia will still want to kill him? Or Luke?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kenobi "sacrificing" himself was pointless though. Completely.

Based on what exactly?

For once in his miserable English life, my beloved Neph is absolutely 100% correct: Kenobi sacrificing himself was completely illogical and accomplished nothing.

He was fighting a losing battle and was surrounded. He was already going to die.

He saw Luke. Realised the only way Luke would leave is if Kenobi was out of the picture. And he knew Luke was the Galaxy's last hope.

Han's death was a much more pointless sacrifice Imo.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
He was fighting a losing battle and was surrounded. He was already going to die.

Then it isn't a sacrifice.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Then it isn't a sacrifice.

So we're playing semantics? If he was going to die anyway then his sacrifice was not pointless like you said earlier. I dare say it is one of the most pivotal moments of the Star Wars franchise.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He saw Luke. Realised the only way Luke would leave is if Kenobi was out of the picture. And he knew Luke was the Galaxy's last hope.

Han's death was a much more pointless sacrifice Imo.

It did more than even that to be honest lol.

Han didn't sacrifice himself for anyone. He made a desperate attempt to get his son back and was killed. He didn't walk up to Kylo to save anyone, he did it because Leia asked him to try and get him back as his father.

I dunno, I got this very much. Maybe you need to be a parent to get the meaning of this scene. I thought it was very moving in a restraint way.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
An outlook is very vague. Especially since it has been 30 years in universe. In 30 years(or thereabouts) we fought 2 world wars.

Well, we don't know what happened between ROTS and ANH either. Didn't hear anyone complain. I love gaps like this, because it leaves room for a unique human quality: imagination!

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Well what I wanted from episode VII truly was for my heroes from the OT to still be pretty cool,

Well, I'm glad that they didn't. They tried to make Indy look cool in KOTCS, but all we saw was an old man wearing his 20 year old outfit trying to do young things. But we didn't like Indy in the 80s because he wore a leather jacket and used a whip. We liked him because we wanted to BE Indy.

We sure don't want to be an old hero. I think they did an excellent job with Han in that respect: he looked, behaved and acted his age. Leia did too. And I'm sure Luke will as well. So two thumbs up, if you ask me. Don't make old people look like the cool heroes of the past.

Originally posted by AuraAngel

So yeah I guess I was disappointed with this film. 👆

And you are very entitled to. I understand why you don't like it. But as I said before: to me the pro by far outweigh the cons. In your case it's the other way around.

Originally posted by queeq
Well, I'm glad that they didn't. They tried to make Indy look cool in KOTCS, but all we saw was an old man wearing his 20 year old outfit trying to do young things. But we didn't like Indy in the 80s because he wore a leather jacket and used a whip. We liked him because we wanted to BE Indy.

We sure don't want to be an old hero. I think they did an excellent job with Han in that respect: he looked, behaved and acted his age. Leia did too. And I'm sure Luke will as well. So two thumbs up, if you ask me. Don't make old people look like the cool heroes of the past.

Originally posted by queeq
Han didn't sacrifice himself for anyone. He made a desperate attempt to get his son back and was killed. He didn't walk up to Kylo to save anyone, he did it because Leia asked him to try and get him back as his father.

I dunno, I got this very much. Maybe you need to be a parent to get the meaning of this scene. I thought it was very moving in a restraint way.

It's hard to get invested in a father son relationship when the son cares more about some old dude than his father and the father has spent who knows how long not dealing with his son being Hitler 2.0.

Originally posted by queeq
Well, we don't know what happened between ROTS and ANH either. Didn't hear anyone complain. I love gaps like this, because it leaves room for a unique human quality: imagination!

We knew in the time between that Palpatine was building a neat planet destroying bomb and that the rebellion started at some point. There are some things to speculate on like how much Leia's daddy was involved but overall the state of the galaxy is much the same(the Senate not getting removed until ANH).

It is another thing entirely to imagine how our heroes bungled setting up a government for a galaxy that was actively celebrating the fall of the Empire. We know that a Republic was made but who runs it we don't know since Leia and Akbar, the two highest ranking Rebellion members that the general audience is likely to know/care about, are not part of it. We know that regardless of what Luke tried to do with the new Jedi Order that he fumbled spectacularly, which is really odd since he had 3 Force ghosts with varying degrees of knowledge and wisdom helping him out. And Han just lost the Falcon and went into debt...again.

Originally posted by queeq
Well, I'm glad that they didn't. They tried to make Indy look cool in KOTCS, but all we saw was an old man wearing his 20 year old outfit trying to do young things. But we didn't like Indy in the 80s because he wore a leather jacket and used a whip. We liked him because we wanted to BE Indy.

We sure don't want to be an old hero. I think they did an excellent job with Han in that respect: he looked, behaved and acted his age. Leia did too. And I'm sure Luke will as well. So two thumbs up, if you ask me. Don't make old people look like the cool heroes of the past.

You don't need to make them be the heroes of the movie. There is no point to doing that. Show Leia trying to martial the Republic for war instead of just being there. Show Han working for the Republic, either by trying to find the map or trying to defeat the First Order. Show the splinter cell as being a much smaller force than the Empire they've beaten. Show Luke doing something noteworthy(training new Jedi to fight the Knights of Ren, meditating, something besides just standing there) and explain why he ran.

Originally posted by queeq
And you are very entitled to. I understand why you don't like it. But as I said before: to me the pro by far outweigh the cons. In your case it's the other way around.

That is fair. 👆

Originally posted by queeq
Han didn't sacrifice himself for anyone. He made a desperate attempt to get his son back and was killed. He didn't walk up to Kylo to save anyone, he did it because Leia asked him to try and get him back as his father.

I dunno, I got this very much. Maybe you need to be a parent to get the meaning of this scene. I thought it was very moving in a restraint way.

Well I guess from a Parent's point of view that would be a more emotional scene. Just don't think it worked enough for the rest of us because we as an audience never saw the relationship they had.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well I guess from a Parent's point of view that would be a more emotional scene. Just don't think it worked enough for the rest of us because we as an audience never saw the relationship they had.

I am not a parent but I understood what the scene meant