Yoda vs Palpatine (TO THE DEATH!)

Originally posted by relentless1
all my observations about palpatine throwing that fight IS right there on the screen, I've gone over this ad nauseous and I'm not gonna tread that ground again, go find the thread where we had this long debate if you want to revisit my solid observations

I know your argument very well, and nothing, nothing has ever been stated in canon that says he threw the fight. Not a single quote in either the movie or the book. Odd such an important plot point was never mentioned don't ya think. In the end, we don't need to go over it again. I just thought it was funny to see you say, the movie provides all we need. When in fact, in this case, you don't view it that way. You use inference, speculation and guessing to come to a conclusion that was never stated.. by anyone... ever. Those things aren't close to the same level of proof as what I have.

Ohh no. Don't get into the Sidious threw the fight or not debate again. It doesn't really matter since Sidious is above Windu in sabers and the force anyway. With Vaaapd he could stand as perfect equal meaning that without it or him under more normal circumstances he wouldn't be as fast or as powerful. In other words

Sidious>Mace and that's undeniable whether you think Sidious threw the fight or not. T

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Sidious is above Windu in sabers

Is there actually any proof of that?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Is there actually any proof of that?

Windus has one showing of lightsaber combat, which he won via dive

Sidious has three lightsaber showings: one where he took a dive, one that he seemed to have lost to Yoda (who is Maces superior) and one against Savage and Maul where he made them look like children. I think based on that showing alone he's above Mace, the only person he ever actually lost to was Maces superior in combat skills.

Originally posted by relentless1
Windus has one showing of lightsaber combat, which he won via dive

Sidious has three lightsaber showings: one where he took a dive, one that he seemed to have lost to Yoda (who is Maces superior) and one against Savage and Maul where he made them look like children. I think based on that showing alone he's above Mace, the only person he ever actually lost to was Maces superior in combat skills.

That's not really proof tbh. After all Mace is the 2nd most powerful Jedi. So best to judge by the Saber fight they had Imo.

That's not to say Mace > Sidious. Because Sidious still has greater overall force powers which would win him the fight under different circumstances, like in the senate room fight scenario.

Originally posted by Nai
Yeah. Because that's how deflecting force lightning works.

YouTube video

Not.

Yes. We don't know the context, but we know that the saber is gone. I can also point to what we actually see:

YouTube video

Going by the faces of Sidious and the sounds he makes, he struggles quite more in that lightsaber fight than Yoda does.

Much like Sidious can't force lightning Yoda into defeat. Don't be silly.

See first Clip above. The further he is away from Yoda, the easier it would be to deflect the lightning with risidual blasts hitting nobody.

Apparently, you don't even know what "emphasis" means. And Yoda still wins. 🙂

He snarls and hisses. We see him do so against Windu as well. That didn't have anything to do with the moment he was disarmed by Windu so once again you're reaching. The fact remains we don't know the context, imagination station.

Sidious used the attack twice. Once it ko'd him, the second time it disarmed him while Yoda ended up careening off the pod. That's two for two, sport. The force push didn't ko him either.

That was Dooku whose force lightning is weaker than Palpatine's. We see Yoda can't casually deflect his lightning and the residual blast impacted those within close proximity. That would be Yoda.

Emphasis: Palpatine my dim witted friend.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm still waiting for that deleted scene where Sids beats Yoda as Quan is claiming

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ah it's funny watching Nai make an idiot out of Quanchi's trolling "arguments".

Originally posted by relentless1
Windus has one showing of lightsaber combat, which he won via dive

Sidious has three lightsaber showings: one where he took a dive, one that he seemed to have lost to Yoda (who is Maces superior) and one against Savage and Maul where he made them look like children. I think based on that showing alone he's above Mace, the only person he ever actually lost to was Maces superior in combat skills.

Ridiculous doesn't even describe this post. Let's totally ignore their ACTUAL fight against one another, and instead, we'll talk about other irrelevant fights. The single most important fight we can look at or use as proof of who would win between Sids and Mace in saber combat... is, well, look at this shocking news... THE ACTUAL FIGHT BETWEEN THEM.

You can keep on insisting Sids threw the fight but you've been totally owned on the subject with absolute ease. You and I both know that your theory relies on speculation and inference and guess work. My side relies on canon proof shown over and over again. One is a justifiable and logically sound position based on canon. Yours is, well, not even admissible in court.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Is there actually any proof of that?

Yes. That he needed Vaapad which is his combative form, but still performed as said in the novel that boosted him to be his perfect equal. So really under normal circumstances he is below the Yoda/Sidious level of deuling.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yes. That he needed Vaapad which is his combative form, but still performed as said in the novel that boosted him to be his perfect equal. So really under normal circumstances he is below they Yoda/Sidious level of deuling.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So made can't use his skills but Sidious can use the dark side ? Hypocrisy 101.

I'm not discounting it or saying he can't use it. I'm just saying that it's detailed very clearly in the novel and thus translated very well in the movie that there was some funny business going on with Vaapad. He is welcome to use the form as he wishes since it is his style and he created it, I'm just saying what it does tipped the scales as said in the novel and thus translated in the movies.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I'm not discounting it or saying he can't use it. I'm just saying that it's detailed very clearly in the novel and thus translated very well in the movie that there was some funny business going on with Vaapad. He is welcome to use the form as he wishes since it is his style and he created it, I'm just saying what it does tipped the scales as said in the novel and thus translated in the movies.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you believe his style is greatly effective against Sidious but hypocritically dismiss it while saying its ok for Darth Sidious to use the dark side.

It was highly effective against him in that one combat situation yes it was, he was his perfect equal. Also did you read my last post here let me show you this part.

He is welcome to use the form as he wishes since it is his style and he created it,

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yes. That he needed Vaapad which is his combative form, but still performed as said in the novel that boosted him to be his perfect equal. So really under normal circumstances he is below the Yoda/Sidious level of deuling.

As we've discussed, this is his saber form.. he would have that ability each and every time against Sids. To act differently, is being disingenuous

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
It was highly effective against him in that one combat situation yes it was, he was his perfect equal. Also did you read my last post here let me show you this part.

He is welcome to use the form as he wishes since it is his style and he created it,

So you concede the point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't his equal he was his superior. He won.

So you concede the point.

https://youtu.be/thsFbDtLrVg 4:32-5:00 count it discount it for it isn't movie or clone wars/rebels material just thought you should be enlightened about this since it is canon just not usable as evidence here however this is about Yoda vs Palaptine not Mace vs Sidious. Also I think you should know mace only one by use of environment not superior speed, or technical mastery, since he in the novel he uses the environment, a brilliant tactic I might add to make sidiosu slow down so he wouldn't slip off so he hesitated for a second and took advantage of that according to the novel. In the movie we see Sidious is his equal with the blade as neither disarms the other through superior swordmanship.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
As we've discussed, this is his saber form.. he would have that ability each and every time against Sids. To act differently, is being disingenuous

First of all stop Ok. You and I have been through this time again. My position has not changed. Never once have I tried to take Vaapad away from Mace. It is his style of combat a style he made. I know that, there is no need for you to be like a parrot and repeat yourself. However even you with your thick skull can't put aside that it however did have a dramatic affect on his combat performance that you yourself IIRC agreed mace would never see again even if he fought Sidious again I mean legit. Don't pull that of course he wouldn't because he's dead crap.

I certainly never agreed with that at all. I never said he wouldn't have the vaapad boost from Sids. He would get that each and every time. The only thing I said he might not get.. is his extra motivation realizing the fate of the galaxy was at stake. He might even have that, considering it was Sidious (a sith lord and his archenemy). However, it could be that Mace realized how Dire things were.. a sith lord was actually in control of the senate. Such an exact situation might not happen again, but he would also get a boost from Sids dark side powers. Always.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
https://youtu.be/thsFbDtLrVg 4:32-5:00 count it discount it for it isn't movie or clone wars/rebels material just thought you should be enlightened about this since it is canon just not usable as evidence here however this is about Yoda vs Palaptine not Mace vs Sidious. Also I think you should know mace only one by use of environment not superior speed, or technical mastery, since he in the novel he uses the environment, a brilliant tactic I might add to make sidiosu slow down so he wouldn't slip off so he hesitated for a second and took advantage of that according to the novel. In the movie we see Sidious is his equal with the blade as neither disarms the other through superior swordmanship.

In the film Windu clearly deflects the fl right back into face. Most of his points were off but then again I have already thoroughly smashed these points already.