WBHulk vs. Barry Allen.

Originally posted by carver9
Seeing a bunch of procrastinators. We don't debate powerset here. I'm literally pointing to the Surfer vs Superman thread. The thread was derailed for pages insulting people because they used Surfer in an OOC fashion. It's sad. The picking and choosing done all of the time. At least be consistent.

There's a vast difference, though.

Flash can go through every single possibility, and every single tactic in his head.

We've just detailed a couple in this thread. For him to lose, would mean either PIS, or he deliberately chose a losing tactic....

Originally posted by carver9
The hypocrisy is real.

I actually get where carver is coming from. I don't agree with all his points, but really how often does forum flash appear in a comic?

Originally posted by -K-M-
I actually get where carver is coming from. I don't agree with all his points, but really how often does forum flash appear in a comic?

Very rarely, I also agree with carver here.

BUT - is it because of PIS? Because if so, surely they should be ignored.

What's left, are the 1 or 2 or 3 showings where he takes down the AM, or he outspeeds Zoom, or calculates infinite scenarios etc.

I mean, even IF we allow for CIS, because he can recalculate new scenarios based on information, and because he reacts the femtosecond something happens - CIS is completely removed.

Tbh, phasing and other tactics are quite common for him.

The scans posted here are meant to reinforce the idea that Flash won't hold back here like he normally does because it's not in his character to die, and he can calculate infinite scenarios in a second.

You don't really have to go to attosecond showings to beat Hulk.

I see it like this. If you're going to debate primarily off of powerset, it's pointless providing scans...irrelevant. The only reason scans should be posted is to provide nothing but their highest showings and go from their. So ABHI posting scans of Surfer being punched to sleep is pointless since it can easily be brought up that he can phase through all physical attacks. Surfer should be able to beat any Herald 10/10 due to the bfr option. Superman vs Thor...Superman should win 10/10 due to speed. Hell, Gladiator should get a 10/10 as well. Remember, we ignore comics. The only thing we do here now is debate primarily off of powerset. An argument can be made of Thor pulling a 10/10 against HP Doomsday unless someone can provide scans of Doomsday countering bfr. Instantaneous bfr. Powerset here. Not comics.

Originally posted by carver9
I see it like this. If you're going to debate primarily off of powerset, it's pointless providing scans...irrelevant. The only reason scans should be posted is to provide nothing but their highest showings and go from their. So ABHI posting scans of Surfer being punched to sleep is pointless since it can easily be brought up that he can phase through all physical attacks. Surfer should be able to beat any Herald 10/10 due to the bfr option. Superman vs Thor...Superman should win 10/10 due to speed. Hell, Gladiator should get a 10/10 as well. Remember, we ignore comics. The only thing we do here now is debate primarily off of powerset. An argument can be made of Thor pulling a 10/10 against HP Doomsday unless someone can provide scans of Doomsday countering bfr. Instantaneous bfr. Powerset here. Not comics.

But what if your powerset includes calculating the best way to win?

For Barry to lose this battle by KO or death, he would have to deliberately go through every option, then select the ones which lead to his death/KO.

That doesn't sound like Barry, at all, and we are all debating off character here.

It's like Midnighter's battle computer.

Thor getting beat by Hulk is also a good example of CIS.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Thor getting beat by Hulk is also a good example of CIS.

So you agree that we debate primarily off of CIS?

Wait wait... Is that the new rule here? Ive been away for some time, but check in once in a while. We only go off powerset now?

Originally posted by -K-M-
how often does forum flash appear in a comic?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Thor getting beat by Hulk is also a good example of CIS.

True - but we all saw what happened when he found he COULDN'T beat Nuul.

BFR.

So sure, in the first 5 minutes of a fight, Thor would go h2h, the usual Mjolnir twirling etc. Then even HE realises, hang on, punching the Hulk isn't solving anything.

5 minutes is a lifetime to Barry, lol. It's an extreme form of lowballing, to say that he's stupid enough to keep attempting the same tactics which fail over and over and over again.

Originally posted by carver9
So you agree that we debate primarily off of CIS?

Are you saying Hulk needs CIS to win?

Originally posted by One-Punch
I'd like to know this as well.

Rarely. But I am arguing that the lack of these showings is due to PIS. For Plot reasons, Flash has to be slow enough that Deathstroke can tag him. His enemies are shown to be able to tank the mass of a small moon/white dwarf star slamming into them.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Wait wait... Is that the new rule here? Ive been away for some time, but check in once in a while. We only go off powerset now?

We don't. Carver is attempting to throw red herrings.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But what if your powerset includes calculating the best way to win?

For Barry to lose this battle by KO or death, he would have to deliberately go through every option, then select the ones which lead to his death/KO.

That doesn't sound like Barry, at all, and we are all debating off character here.

It's like Midnighter's battle computer.

What if your powerset include hitting a person with a blast bfring him?

For Surfer to lose any battles by ko or death, he would deliberately have to forget that he had the bfr option and the ability to see the future.

That doesn't sound like Surfer, at all..

In order for your argument to hold weight, all of his opponents would have to have instantaneous reactions...at least the ones that were capable of punching him clean in the face, or your scenario is a high showing that you are using as a norm. Please don't let me name who's all damaged him in combat or outright koed him.

Originally posted by One-Punch
I'd like to know this as well.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I agree that comics work around CIS because the plot comes first.

Are you saying Hulk needs CIS to win?

Are you saying that Heralds that can't come back via bfr needs CIS? Remember, some people gave Thor some wins against Gladiator and Superman when overall, both have a huge speed advantage.

Lol at people mixing up CIS with debating off of powerset. But that's Carver's fault.

It's like me posting in the Superman vs Surfer thread and saying 'Surfer and Superman wouldn't fight or would hold back a lot because is ooc for them to fight good guys and saying otherwise is debating off of powerset.'

Originally posted by carver9
Are you saying that Heralds that can't come back via bfr needs CIS? Remember, some people gave Thor some wins against Gladiator and Superman when overall, both have a huge speed advantage.

Did you even see them race?

👆

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Lol at people mixing up CIS with debating off of powerset. But that's Carver's fault.

It's like me posting in the Superman vs Surfer thread and saying 'Surfer and Superman wouldn't fight or would hold back a lot because is ooc for them to fight good guys and saying otherwise is debating off of powerset.'

Uuuummmm, CIS have a lot to do with this. You're debating Flash out of character. If this is the case then this should be applied across the board, not with just Flash.

Cheetah instantaneous reflex for the win.