ok, i've a few issues with what i've been reading. first, this issue of flash being able to review infinite possibilities. 😐
if the question is 2+2, all the speed in the world isn't going to matter--the answer is 4. how many possible ways are there for him to beat hulk? not many so the point of infinite calculations is kinda meaningless. it also would seem to imply flash has......ultimate knowledge? omniscience? he can only go through as many calculations or permutations as he KNOWS. barry is sharp, but he's not batman, let alone nighter's computer......
he's going to see a huge, green monster in front of him. he has a VERY ltd number of options. why would he need to go through an infinite number of them...? the ability to think at superspeed is cool as all hell, and i've abused it when needed, but in this battle it's moot.
i also see a lot of people talking about making use of ON PANEL material only to justify flash's abilities in this, or any forum fight. that's all well and good. the point still exists that carv (who is getting raked over the coals, something i normally don't have an issue with, but this time i think is not wholly justified) keeps raising--what is the most powerful being flash has ko'd, with or without the notorious IMP? (i agree with your definition, btw galan 👆 ) if we really are sticking to on panel, i think the cries of double standards against carv are....pretty damn ironic.
anyone wanna take a crack at naming the most powerful being flash has actually ko'd, physically?
that leaves phasing through the radiation and phasing out his brain. again, at this level of hulk, i wonder how fast he would heal from even THAT. but let's say he does it anyway. WOULD he? barry is one of the FEW characters in all of comics who may very well choose to die before killing. i'd take ANY proofs to the contrary. especially after the results of flashpoint.
and then, there is the natural extrapolation that must necessarily occur. if as everyone seems to think, flash effortlessly kills a hulk of this extreme level (who is clearly high trans) where DO you stop. why has no one bothered to carry it forward? h1 is the only one who has not shied away from the natural results of the supposition. does he beat thanos as easily? odin? galactus (odin's headbutt DID ko galactus and clearly flash can hit harder than that measly headbutt.... inbetweener has also hurt him badly with punches)?
so, where do we stop exactly?
it also raises a final point--someone mentioned how tiers are fan-based? so? the purpose of them is to come up with a relative comparison of characters based on performance in comics. there is nothing wrong with the way i'm viewing anything, given that the purpose of said thread was to allow people to try and create FAIR vs battles. so, do we rank characters based on their performance in books, or based on their powersets and how they would perform in a forum setting? i'd have said the former, initially, but this issue with flash would scream the latter. it can't be powersets for some, and not for others.
this flash, calculating at infinite speed, moving at near infinite speed, would kill every herald, easily. phase out ss's brain who has no showings even close. superman. 😂 he'd be dead before he knew he was in a fight. forget hulk, or thor, majestic, any lantern. if you're comfortable elevating flash to that level, then actually come out and say it. i am on the record as saying i am NOT comfortable with that. i still hold comic performance in higher regard on this forum than powersets. pis won't apply, but cis and IN character does. that means that a character may NOT fight to their potential, but rather to the potential they would fight to while remaining IN CHARACTER. someone does something once in 60yrs but suddenly THAT is their potential? not in this guy's opinion. what can or would a character do IN character is, i guess, very subjective. but some of what i've seen postulated here would fall under outliers, while others would flat out fall under ooc imo.
i guess it's for each to decide themselves, but i'd dislike the trend if forum characters took precedence over comic characters.
Originally posted by leonidasLeo, I'll put it simply -
*snip*
I'll ask you two questions and try to answer it in a paragraph.
With the undeniable fact that at nanosecond perception (which is orders of magnitude below what Flash is capable of, but let's assume this is it), you'd live decades of your life for every second that passes from Hulk's perspective...take a few seconds to really absorb that sentence and...with that in mind...
a). If you had Flash's powers, would Hulk ever touch you under any circumstances? Would he ever even percieve the fight has started? In order to do that - with the standard above - you'd have to spend relative years watching his punch slowly moving towards you and not get out of the way. Would you do that?
b). Even if it were not you, and it were a retarded person (I'm talking really tragic - like 25 IQ), do you think they'd stay in one place for years and not dodge the punch?
If the answer to both of these questions is no - then why are you making Barry to be the most retarded fighter in history, in a non-PIS environment?
This is why people misunderstand what being in character tends to mean. Barry doesn't have selective amnesia so we know he doesn't forget his speed. His parents and other loved ones weren't raped by an embodiment of the speed force so he has no reason to feel any fear out of using his speed to the fullest extent.
So there are two reasons he would hold back: fear of killing someone or because the plot demands it. You will note the former option doesn't really apply here since Hulk has been rendered unconscious in the past so we know it can be done, we know he doesn't have to kill the Hulk to win. You will note the latter option also doesn't apply since there is no actual plot to speak of.
Originally posted by Surtur
This is why people misunderstand what being in character tends to mean. Barry doesn't have selective amnesia so we know he doesn't forget his speed. His parents and other loved ones weren't raped by an embodiment of the speed force so he has no reason to feel any fear out of using his speed to the fullest extent.So there are two reasons he would hold back: fear of killing someone or because the plot demands it. You will note the former option doesn't really apply here since Hulk has been rendered unconscious in the past so we know it can be done, we know he doesn't have to kill the Hulk to win. You will note the latter option also doesn't apply since there is no actual plot to speak of.
How is he beating WBH? Does Flash generate more power than 133 Hercules?
Originally posted by carver9Pretty bad comparison.
@Leo...Sad thing is, the forum made a rule against Hulk. They pretty much said that Hulk can not fight at the best of his abilities by giving WWH limitations but yet Flash gets to fight at Super Saiyan modes...Nothing we've seen in comics. Ludicrous.
Originally posted by carver9
Its Hulk who had full capacity taken off of him. In the same chapter of WWH he went World Breaker. Limitations was still placed on him whereas we have Flash fighting at femtoseconds and doing limitless calculations which was all done in separate books.
Limitations were placed on him because of people like you, making the arguments you do. Remember that.
Why are you whining? Where in the OP does it say Hulk is limited?
Originally posted by carver9When you use WWH you're limited to drag fts from that specific arc.
So it's a bad comparison bringing up the fact that Hulk had limitations placed on him whIle others are fighting to the best of their abilities? Gotcha.
If I made the thread 'Trial by fire Flash vs V&V Despero', the same would apply. It's not a vendetta against Hulk if that's what you're implying, lol.
Originally posted by carver9There are different versions of Hulk. The op decides the rules. If the op says WWH then Hulk is limited to only that version. Otherwise the op would describe the actual limits of Hulk. He can't go WB. In this thread the op said that Barry can and will use ALL of his abilities as shown in the comics.
So it's a bad comparison bringing up the fact that Hulk had limitations placed on him whIle others are fighting to the best of their abilities? Gotcha.