Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
LMAOfor real tho, someone link ahsokas best feats?
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah I seriously doubt he was including Maul in that statement. If he was then his comparison to the Yoda problem in TCW makes no sense as Maul obviously can challenge Ashoka.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The context never exempted Maul. And you can stop attacking strawmen, Feloni never said Maul couldn't challenge Ahsoka.
Can you read? The quote is talking about how Ahsoka can kick the asses of every one in the opposition, the GALACTIC EMPIRE, bar Vader and Sidious. Is Maul part of the Empire? Is he? No. He is exempted from the quote no matter what you try to say.
Originally posted by thesithmasterThe empire is never referred to in the context of this quote:
Can you read? The quote is talking about how Ahsoka can kick the asses of every one in the opposition, the GALACTIC EMPIRE, bar Vader and Sidious. Is Maul part of the Empire? Is he? No. He is exempted from the quote no matter what you try to say.
Well, we were actually very careful. Once we brought her back, there was a lot of excitement —_more than we had
anticipated. The first day back in the writing room everybody was like, “Oh, this is great, we’ll have Ahsoka do this and we’ll have Ahsoka do that,” and as we’re kind of sitting there, it’s really apparent that this could become The Ahsoka Tano Show really quickly. That’s not the direction we wanted to go in for Rebels. This show is primarily about Ezra and Kanan and what they’re doing. If we focus too much on Ahsoka, we’re not showing the importance of our main characters anymore. It was important that if we had Ahsoka in the story it be in service to Ezra and Kanan somehow, that her story crossed with theirs because it was important for them. Those were the ground rules that we had going into it.
We used to have this problem in Clone Wars when we would try to put Yoda in a story and it would be like, “Yeah, if Yoda’s there, this isn’t really a problem is it?” That’s because Yoda’s going to go in there and kick everyone’s butt. We all felt that Ahsoka, the only person that could really match her in this time period, blow for blow, would be Vader or the Emperor. So that was why you didn’t see her as much and when she showed up it was purposeful. It had meaning again. You always have to serve your story, and the best way we could do that was by actually limiting Ahsoka in the story, so when she showed up, you knew it was going to be important.
She's compared to Yoda because as of season 2 of rebels, she is this shows strongest protagonist, who most antagonists in the show would have their "butts kicked" which makes her hard to use. You're assuming though, that the stipulations presented here, not getting your butt kicked, to the explanation given for why she's so hard to use.
The explanation for this that is given is that bar a couple of exceptions, those who can at least match her via their superiority(vader/sdious), no one can "really" macth her "blow for blow".
The "really" and "blow for blow" make obvious that this isn't exempting people from being able to challenge her, it's just that they can't perfectly match her.
That Maul can challenge Ahsoka doesn't exempt him from this statement which is specifically listing people who can "really match her, blow for blow"
I mean could we all take a second... Like seriously, it baffles me how anyone can observe their respective performances against Dooku and Vader and think, "hmmm... those two are near equal!"
Just from watching their duels the difference between Ahsoka's capabilities and Ventress's capabilities becomes pretty damn clear:
Attacking
Ahsoka attacking Vader: Ahsoka manages to trade blows with Vader and push him back
Ventress attacking Dooku: Dooku dodges two of Ventress's attacks, blocks one of her attacks, and floors her in about three seconds flat
--------
Dealing with an assault
Vader attacking Ahsoka: Ahsoka turns her back to Vader and manages to defend herself from him in that awkward position
Dooku attacking Ventress: Ventress gets floored after a brief exchange of strikes
------
Attacking their opponents with a circumstantial edge
Ahsoka attacking a disadvantaged Vader: Vader is somewhat caught off guard, but still sees her coming, turns towards her, and reacts quick enough to block one of her strikes, yet she still lands a blow TO HIS HEAD
Ventress attacking a disadvantaged Dooku: Dooku is unarmed and Ventress has assistance, and Ventress can't lay a scratch on a barely retreating Dooku
---------
Holding ground against their opponents
Ahsoka dealing with Vader's onslaught: Ahsoka is in a slow retreat
Ventress dealing with Dooku's onslaught: She attacks him while his back is turned, then immediately gets driven into a desperate retreat
--------
I mean shit, Ahsoka takes on Vader, and manages to hold her own respectfully well even though it's clear who has the upper hand. Ventress gets thrashed every time she goes at Dooku 1v1, and she's even gone at him with some serious circumstances aiding her and he still came out on top. Ahsoka and Ventress are clearly not on the same level.
It takes some serious willful ignorance to suggest Ventress actually wins.
Originally posted by Emperordmb👆 🙂
I mean could we all take a second... Like seriously, it baffles me how anyone can observe their respective performances against Dooku and Vader and think, "hmmm... those two are near equal!"Just from watching their duels the difference between Ahsoka's capabilities and Ventress's capabilities becomes pretty damn clear:
Attacking
Ahsoka attacking Vader: Ahsoka manages to trade blows with Vader and push him back
Ventress attacking Dooku: Dooku dodges two of Ventress's attacks, blocks one of her attacks, and floors her in about three seconds flat
--------
Dealing with an assault
Vader attacking Ahsoka: Ahsoka turns her back to Vader and manages to defend herself from him in that awkward position
Dooku attacking Ventress: Ventress gets floored after a brief exchange of strikes
------
Attacking their opponents with a circumstantial edge
Ahsoka attacking a disadvantaged Vader: Vader is somewhat caught off guard, but still sees her coming, turns towards her, and reacts quick enough to block one of her strikes, yet she still lands a blow TO HIS HEAD
Ventress attacking a disadvantaged Dooku: Dooku is unarmed and Ventress has assistance, and Ventress can't lay a scratch on a barely retreating Dooku
---------
Holding ground against their opponents
Ahsoka dealing with Vader's onslaught: Ahsoka is in a slow retreat
Ventress dealing with Dooku's onslaught: She attacks him while his back is turned, then immediately gets driven into a desperate retreat
--------
I mean shit, Ahsoka takes on Vader, and manages to hold her own respectfully well even though it's clear who has the upper hand. Ventress gets thrashed every time she goes at Dooku 1v1, and she's even gone at him with some serious circumstances aiding her and he still came out on top. Ahsoka and Ventress are clearly not on the same level.
It takes some serious willful ignorance to suggest Ventress actually wins.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The context never exempted Maul. And you can stop attacking strawmen, Feloni never said Maul couldn't challenge Ahsoka.
It's not strawman at all. Read the whole passage In Context. The Yoda example should be very telling. Including Maul in that context makes little to no sense.
So Claiming Maul is definitely included is reaching.
Now Filoni MAY have meant to include Maul, but he'd need to clarify.
Now what's StrawMan is making out the website statement (which clearly is directly comparing Maul, Ashoka and Kanan) isn't talking about combatative strength.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yea, Ahsoka does more than "trade blows" with vader at the beginning of the encounter. She lands a kick with her first move, dances around him, and then forces him to overextend himself.
Funny how you're not bringing up this being a "Pre-Prime Ventress" now.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's not strawman at all. Read the whole passage In Context. The Yoda example should be very telling. Including Maul in that context makes little to no sense.
[/B]
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
[B]She's compared to Yoda because as of season 2 of rebels, she is this shows strongest protagonist, who most antagonists in the show would have their "butts kicked" which makes her hard to use. You're assuming though, that the stipulations presented here, not getting your butt kicked, to the explanation given for why she's so hard to use.
The explanation for this that is given is that bar a couple of exceptions, those who can at least match her via their superiority(vader/sdious), no one can "really" macth her "blow for blow".
The "really" and "blow for blow" make obvious that this isn't exempting people from being able to challenge her, it's just that they can't perfectly match her.
That Maul can challenge Ahsoka doesn't exempt him from this statement which is specifically listing people who can "really match her, blow for blow"
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Now what's StrawMan is making out the website statement (which clearly is directly comparing Maul, Ashoka and Kanan) isn't talking about combatative strength.
That aside, Maul or Ahsoka's combative strength is never mentioned, and there is no specific comparison drawn between the two. All the statement asserts is that Maul can best protect Ezra from the inquisitors. That this means Maul>Ahsoka is simply a conclusion you're drawing from it. As Joker has pointed out, there are perfectly plausible alternatives to that reasoning which also align with Ahsoka being the only one of the two ever to gain any kind of advantage in the fight they had.
Furthermore, even assuming your conclusion is the correct one, this inference only holds weight on Mandalore. Feloni's statement, which was referring to Ahsoka's abilities in general isn't contradicted by the quote you're trying to use. There is nothing that states or implies that Maul is superior on even ground and hence we can refer to Authority to clear up the matter of how the two compare on even ground.
There are no contradictions present, save for ones you're trying to force.
Funny how you're not bringing up this being a "Pre-Prime Ventress" now.