Star Wars TFA vs TPM

In the broad strokes, all character arcs can be simplified. OB1's arc is about coming into his own as a Jedi. At the beginning of the film he is indeed nervous about the future and Obi-Wan basically tells him to be mindful of the present. Comes full circle when, while fighting Darth Maul, Obi-Wan is mindful of the lightsaber Maul forgot about and ultimately wins against a superior opponent. At the beginning he is being taught by a master and by the end he is telling Yoda to his face that he's going to follow Qui-Gon's wishes.

It's also not particularly Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon's fault that Anakin turned evil. It's mostly the councils fault.

But... he doesn't really. Swordfighting Darth Maul isn't coming into your own as a Jedi. It's fencing. Noticing Qui-Gon's saber is very superficial and an incredible stretch to point to as part of a character arc. That isn't being mindful of the present, that's having eyes. And Maul being a dumbass. You can call it subtle if you want, but I call is imaginary. Maybe if that was the case draw any amount of attention to the parallel. Like maybe he starts to panic but calms down then notices it. Or anything. Also part of the point is that Obi-Wan doesn't come in to his own as a Jedi. He isn't ready. Hence why he fails in training Anakin.

He makes no strides in terms of his character. He doesn't improve in any manner. He displays no great moments of personality beyond whining. He is an incredibly bland, somewhat annoying character throughout.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But... he doesn't really. Swordfighting Darth Maul isn't coming into your own as a Jedi. It's fencing. Noticing Qui-Gon's saber is very superficial and an incredible stretch to point to as part of a character arc. That isn't being mindful of the present, that's having eyes. And Maul being a dumbass. You can call it subtle if you want, but I call is imaginary. Maybe if that was the case draw any amount of attention to the parallel. Like maybe he starts to panic but calms down then notices it. Or anything. Also part of the point is that Obi-Wan doesn't come in to his own as a Jedi. He isn't ready. Hence why he fails in training Anakin.

He makes no strides in terms of his character. He doesn't improve in any manner. He displays no great moments of personality beyond whining. He is an incredibly bland, somewhat annoying character throughout.

I don't see why it is a stretch to apply meaning to the moment since it is the student taking up the teacher's sword, much like how Rey taking Luke's sword is the sign that she is the new hero and the one to continue fighting evil. And Obi-Wan is willing to argue with the council, something he chastised his own master for at the beginning. Is he ready to train the messiah? No. But that's on the council, not him. Anakin needed training or the Jedi needed to come up with an alternative.

I disagree. It has been a while since I watched the film but I recall a polite lad who had a bit of jealousy, was a little bit whiny, but ultimately a good kid with respect for his master both by honoring his final request and by wanting him to stay on the good side of the council. Won't win character of the year but he's perfectly serviceable. Though it has again been a while.

Originally posted by Astner
To spice this up a bit I'll outline a few questions to spark interest, you don't have to address all or any of them if you don't want to.

Obi-Wan vs Rey: Who did you prefer as the protagonist of the story and why?

Jar-Jar Binks vs Finn: Who did you find more enjoyable?

Anakin (TPM) vs Poe: As far as piloting was concerned, which of these two characters did you prefer?

Darth Maul vs Kylo Ren: Who did you find more interesting and why? What about their new lightsaber designs, which did you prefer?

Qui-Gon Jinn vs Han Solo (TFA): Who's death had the greater impact?

Queen Amidala vs General Leia (TFA): Who seemed to have the greater impact on their respective story?

R2D2 (TPM) vs BB-8: Which droid did you prefer?

Story vs Story: How do you compare the two, which did you prefer?

I always thought QGJ & Padme were the protags and not Obi-Wan, so I'll give it to Rey.

Finn.

Poe was more entertaining, Anakin was deeper.

Maul, all day err day. He was menacing, badass, iconic, and original. A worthy SW villain.

A tie. Obviously there's more emotional investment in Han, but TFA did not do justice to the character beyond Harrison Ford being Harrison Ford. The unspoken reboot of the character and the telegraphed death helped Han go out with a whimper rather than a bang.

Amidala.

R2.

They're about even for me. TFA was more entertaining than TPM, but I've only seen TFA once. TPM mostly puts me to sleep now, but I've seen it so many times in the past 16 years that it's hard to compare.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Astner hates TFA, that is why 😛

Obi-Wan vs Rey

"Given, not earned" is a phrase that perfectly describes Rey: [list][*]Force-abilities on par with fully trained Jedi masters' putting even Anakin—who was conceived by the midi-chlorians, the Force embodied and the messiah of the light side—to shame.[*]Lightsaber proficiency that made Luke's protege; Kylo Ren, look like a *****.[*]She is able to pilot the Millennium Falcon better than Han Solo himself, and knows how to fix it when Han doesn't.[*]A perfect sharpshooter from the first time she fired a Blaster.[/list] And when does she learn any of this? She doesn't. She's a Mary Sue through and through.

She also comes across as a complete *****, but that may well be attributed Daisy Ridler's sterile performance as an actress.

Ewan McGregor on the other hand nailed his role perfectly. Throughout the movie Obi-Wan questioned Qui-Gon actions and motives allowing for organic exposition to seamlessly blend with the plot-narrative. And while the lightsaber battle in the end of The Force Awakens left me in disappointment the battle against Darth Maul is arguably the best in the entire franchise.

Jar-Jar Binks vs Finn

While both characters were felt trite and superfluous, Finn didn't really manage to break the suspension of disbelief to the same degree as Jar-Jar.

Anakin (TPM) vs Poe

Even though we don't see a lot of him I'll have to give this to Poe. Granted, Poe took out TIE Fighters like Schwarzenegger took out bad guys in an 80's action flick but I'd take that over Anakin's jarringly cliche dialogue any day.

Darth Maul vs Kylo Ren

This is just unfair.

Design: What looks like the bastard son of Satan and Mara versus Disney new Vader rip-off that strangely comes with Dumbo's ears and trunk when unmasked.

Acting / Behavior: Darth Maul didn't speak much but when he did he'd sent a chill down your spine, his composure also let you know that he was in control. Kylo Ren on the other hand sounded like a ***** and acted like a *****.

Lightsaber design: Darth Maul's lightsaber made sense. It was specifically designed to fight multiple Jedi, use the momentum of one parried hit to deliver a blow with the other end. Kylo Ren's crucifix restricts the fighting style of the user and the design decision doesn't make sense in the setting.

Qui-Gon Jinn vs Han Solo (TFA)

I'm sorry, but Qui-Gon's death was unexpected and had the same impact on Obi-Wan as it did on the audience. While Han's death would've been more dignified if he'd been shot down by a Stormtrooper. It barely had any emotional impact on anyone since we knew nothing of the relationship between Han and Ben.

Queen Amidala vs General Leia (TFA)

While boring, Padmé was ambitious and competent. While the soulless husk that once was Leia didn't do anything.

R2D2 (TPM) vs BB-8

I've said it before, but BB-8 looks like it belongs in a Pixar movie. R2 all the way.

Story vs Story

Make no mistake, The Phantom Menace was bad, but at least Lucas rolled the dice and tried to make something new and I'll take that any day over Abrams' A New Hope 2.0.

Obi-Wan vs Rey: Who did you prefer as the protagonist of the story and why?

Obi-Wan wasn't the main character, but I still prefer him over Rey. He had a dudebro, arrogant kid attitude about him that I liked. Rey honestly I found to be boring.

Jar-Jar Binks vs Finn: Who did you find more enjoyable?

Lulz. I think I'll ignore this troll question.

Anakin (TPM) vs Poe: As far as piloting was concerned, which of these two characters did you prefer?

Poe. Oscar Isaac is a good looking, charming dude. Jake Lloyd was meh.

Darth Maul vs Kylo Ren: Who did you find more interesting and why? What about their new lightsaber designs, which did you prefer?

Honestly, it's hard to say. Kylo as a character is definitely more interesting to watch on the screen, but if you go back and read about Darth Maul's history, what Palpatine put him through and how Maul was brainwashed and basically had no choice in becoming the monster that he was, Maul becomes a lot more nuanced and sympathetic. Push.

Qui-Gon Jinn vs Han Solo (TFA): Who's death had the greater impact?

Hard to say at this point. I have a feeling sadly that Han's death won't mean very much to the characters in the long run. It certainly wasn't presented that way, and it didn't have the oomph that Qui-Gon's death did.

Queen Amidala vs General Leia (TFA): Who seemed to have the greater impact on their respective story?

Amidala...I guess? She's a terrible character, but Leia barely even had a character presence in TFA.

R2D2 (TPM) vs BB-8: Which droid did you prefer?

Artoo of course. BB-8 was fun and cute, but Artoo is my man.

Story vs Story: How do you compare the two, which did you prefer?

The Phantom Menace is easily the worst of the prequel movies and is the most expendable story plot wise. The Force Awakens was a badly written rehash, basically J.J Abram's fanfiction put onto screen. I can't say that I really liked either one, but at least TPM had that awesome lightsaber fight. The lightsaber fights in TFA aren't bad though. I liked how raw and ferocious they were, and I guess Kylo stopping that blaster bolt in mid air was cool. Still, doesn't beat that Maul fight.

Eh while I don't like Rey as a character I think it is a mistake to call her a ***** Astner. If she were she wouldn't have helped BB-8 and Finn. She's a nice girl.

Originally posted by Astner
Obi-Wan vs Rey: Who did you prefer as the protagonist of the story and why?

Any Obi >>>> Rey. Though Obi was hardly the protagonist of TPM.

Originally posted by Astner
Jar-Jar Binks vs Finn: Who did you find more enjoyable?

Both were good and enjoyable. Jar-Jar has more cringe worthy moments though.

Originally posted by Astner
Anakin (TPM) vs Poe: As far as piloting was concerned, which of these two characters did you prefer?

Anakin.

Originally posted by Astner
Darth Maul vs Kylo Ren: Who did you find more interesting and why? What about their new lightsaber designs, which did you prefer?

Kylo took too much screen time for little gain. Darth Maul was barely there but pound by pound had more impact. His saber was better.

Neither is Dooku level though.

Originally posted by Astner
Qui-Gon Jinn vs Han Solo (TFA): Who's death had the greater impact?

Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by Astner
Queen Amidala vs General Leia (TFA): Who seemed to have the greater impact on their respective story?

Amidala.

Originally posted by Astner
R2D2 (TPM) vs BB-8: Which droid did you prefer?

None, I don't like them droids.

Originally posted by Astner
Story vs Story: How do you compare the two, which did you prefer?

TPM had a better plot.

Originally posted by Bentley
Both were good and enjoyable.

I personally found the droids comment more shocking. Also it is hard for any villain to be as cool as Christopher Lee Bentley so that is hardly fair.

Dooku was kind of lame though, imo. Being Christopher Lee doesn't make you a compelling character.

Of course not. It just basically makes you the best thing in any movie period. It's sort of a universal truth, like blue and yellow making green. I don't make the rules Neph, I just follow 'em.

Pfft, yeah and Sam Jackson is always a badass. Oh wait. Lee wasn't given a chance to impress or emote. Also he just didn't do a very good performance imo.

The opportunity to emote is insignificant next to the power of Christopher Lee.

What I get from what Neph just said is that the movie needed more Dooku 👆

TPM had no antagonists, no arcs. In fact it never had much of a plot. Not IN the movie, that is to say.

I still don't get the plans of Sidious and the TF: what was the blockade supposed to do, what was the non-described treaty supposed to do? How were the blockade and the treaty supposed to help Palpy rise to power? If Padem was so important to have alive, to sign the treaty, why do they send her off to a camp to be 'processed"? (and what does that mean anyway?) Why did the Chancellor just not believe the Jedi about the invasion and bring that in in the Senate? Or Padme for that matter? If Jedi were so totally unimportant in the Old Republic, why are these movies so focussed on them?

Everything that is supposed to look like a plot is hidden in a deep well of mud. "The Dark Side clouds everything"... Yoda was, right, it even clouds what these movies are about.

The notion that TPM "had no antagonists" is factually wrong. Whether or not you think they're up to snuff is another matter, but they were there.

Again, did anyone actually watch the movie before you were told not to like it?

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Of course not. It just basically makes you the best thing in any movie period. It's sort of a universal truth, like blue and yellow making green. I don't make the rules Neph, I just follow 'em.

You please me. Not sure why Dooku wasn't compelling enough for Neph, he ticks a lot of the Kreia boxes: he's a former Jedi turned Sith; he speaks dramatically in an ominous voice; he attempts to present himself to other characters as a trustworthy figure despite a fairly menacing presence; he's not, in AOTC at least, a blatant sadist or exceptionally cruel and seems almost disappointed to kill so many former friends....

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I always thought QGJ & Padme were the protags and not Obi-Wan, so I'll give it to Rey.

Agreed. Apart from the very end Obi-Wan was Qui-Gon's sidekick for the majority of that movie.

Having said that, Obi-Wan's the one whose character grew/changed by the end of the film.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Again, did anyone actually watch the movie before you were told not to like it?

😂