Could Dooku have beaten Anakin?

Started by DarthAnt665 pages

"No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that. Lord Sidious could come up with a new plan more easily than a new apprentice." --Dooku's mind

mmm

It's almost... as if... he got serious...

mmm

help.

https://youtu.be/eQATBFIZ13o

2:36-2:47

Entirely possible Dooku could have won. No he wasn't holding back.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that. Lord Sidious could come up with a new plan more easily than a new apprentice." --Dooku's mind

mmm

It's almost... as if... he got serious...

mmm


You can't talk to educated people that way Ant

Fresh, stop hurting peoples' feelings. You're an *******.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The battle on Invisible Hand was staged and Count Dooku fell for the trap.

If Count Dooku had known that Palpatine would betray him, outcome of the confrontation would have been different and/or Anakin Skywalker's victory could not be guaranteed in this scenario.

There's certainly an argument to be made if Count Dooku could have won against Skywalker had he not faced both Kenobi and Skywalker together first.

But that has nothing to do with holding back.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
There's certainly an argument to be made if Count Dooku could have won against Skywalker had he not faced both Kenobi and Skywalker together first.

But that has nothing to do with holding back.

Nah, since he faced Dooku one on one shortly after.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
There's certainly an argument to be made if Count Dooku could have won against Skywalker had he not faced both Kenobi and Skywalker together first.
I'm not sure how that could be intelligibly argued, tbh. Both the film and novel make it abundantly clear: Anakin was simply better than Dooku.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not sure how that could be intelligibly argued, tbh. Both the film and novel make it abundantly clear: Anakin was simply better than Dooku.

Simply due to the scene where he left Anakin helplessly floored for 10 seconds while he was disposing of Kenobi.

That said you're right, an all out Anakin simply was better. But Dooku may take some wins outta 10 based on Anakin's flickering emotional states and Dooku being the more skilled and knowledgeable in the Force.

Both the movie and film make it abundantly clear that a driven Anakin simply overpowered Dooku in sabers鈥攅ven more so when he drew from the dark side.

Dooku will always have the advantage over Anakin when it comes to the force; he was more refined and knowledgeable.

The following are in sabers:

100% effort Dooku > 80% effort Anakin
100% Dooku = 100% Anakin
100% Dooku < 110% Anakin (powered by dark rage)

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, Anakin stomped him.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That was already after he stopped holding back, so no, it really isn't that great a point.

That part of the book is obviously n-canon. Dooku fought Kenobi and Skywalker on Oba-Diah. They both had already began practicing Soresu and Djem So, respectively, by then. Not to mention in the movie Dooku never shows signs of being concerned until 5-10 ish seconds before his hands get lobbed off. Even in their last saber lock before it, Dooku is shown effortlessly parrying Anakin's blow with a grin on his face. Only when Skywalker did an unorthodox move to get past his defenses did Dooku lose.

Could Dooku defeat Anakin? Sure. Shit at that point in time he thought Dooku just killed one father figure and could potentially kill another in Palpatine. That's what we like to call a high end showing. Could Dooku take a majority? Eh, probably not, but it could be argued.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Are you special, chilled? It'd explain a lot.

Well personally I think everyone is special in their own way.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That said you're right, an all out Anakin simply was better. But Dooku may take some wins outta 10 based on Anakin's flickering emotional states and Dooku being the more skilled and knowledgeable in the Force.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Could Dooku defeat Anakin? Sure. Shit at that point in time he thought Dooku just killed one father figure and could potentially kill another in Palpatine. That's what we like to call a high end showing. Could Dooku take a majority? Probably not.

Precisely. Like I said it all depends on circumstances, one of which is mental/emotional state.

Shit in fact the books ENTIRE depiction of that fight is n-canon as far as I'm concerned.
Here's the official screenplay:


OBI-WAN and ANAKIN charge COUNT DOOKU. A great sword fight ensues.

COUNT DOOKU: I've been looking forward to this.

ANAKIN: My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.

COUNT DOOKU: Good. Twice the pride, double the fall.

DOOKU lunges at the JEDI and they fall back . . .

COUNT DOOKU: (continuing) Your moves are clumsy, Kenobi . . . too predictable. You'll have to do better.

As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry. ANAKIN continues to drive the attack on DOOKU. COUNT DOOKU throws OBI-WAN back using the Force.
ANAKIN and COUNT DOOKU move up the stairs. As they reach the upper landing of the General's Quarters, ANAKIN leaps over COUNT DOOKU. OBI-WAN reaches the top of the stairs, destroying TWO SUPER BATTLE DROIDS. COUNT DOOKU holds OBI-WAN in the air using the Force as he turns and kicks ANAKIN out of frame. OBI-WAN is choking.
ANAKIN hits the archway.
DOOKU sends OBI-WAN flying. The Jedi tumbles to the lower level unconscious. COUNT DOOKU spins around again and, using the Force, causes a section of the balcony to drop onto OBI-WAN. ANAKIN spins and kicks COUNT DOOKU, sending him over the balcony. ANAKIN Jumps, following him down to the main floor. COUNT DOOKU and ANAKIN continue the fight.

COUNT DOOKU: (continuing) I sense great fear in you, Skywalker. You have hate, you have anger, but you don鈥檛 use them.

Anakin regains his composure and attacks COUNT DOOKU as the Dark Lord continues his spin to meet him head on. Their fighting becomes even more intense.
Anakin attacks COUNT DOOKU with a new ferociousness.

39 INT. GENERAL'S QUARTERS-TRADE FEDERATION CRUISER

Anakin and Dooku continue their fight. It is intense! Finally, in one last energized charge, ANAKIN cuts off COUNT DOOKU's hands. The Jedi catches the lightsaber as it drops from the severed Sith Lord's hand. COUNT DOOKU stumbles to the floor as ANAKIN puts the two lightsabers to his neck. PALPATINE is grinning as he watches COUNT DOOKU's defeat."

The script makes it clear that Dooku AND Kenobi are exhausted even before Dooku dispatches him and even then Dooku "spins to meet him(Anakin) head on".

"It's obviously not canon if I don't like it." - Stark 2016

I like how the script doesn't match ether but it's okay because it supports you.

Yes, because someone who is 'exhausted' can do this:

The script is much closer to the film than the novel tbh, and doesn't contradict TCW.

The script states once Kenobi is down that "Anakin attacks Count Dooku with a new ferociousness". It's once he attacks on that new level that he completely outmatched Dooku Imo.

But before that point of course Dooku had a chance of beating Anakin 1 v 1, given he already had Skywalker helplessly floored for 10seconds, while simultaneously stomping Kenobi.

Yeah the Legends and Canon interpretations of the duel are not compatible.

Originally posted by Kurk
Dooku will always have the advantage over Anakin when it comes to the force; he was more refined and knowledgeable.

You mean in his mastery over Tk. Skywalker was more powerful in the Force though, which is why he beat him.