DOS Doomsday vs Sentry

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Primo :

The problem is that you are trying to transfer one kind of speed in one departement to another kind of speed in another departement.

I literally tried my best to show to you and other than nor in fiction, nor in real life the logic of transfering speed feats is possible.

Secundo :

You are trying to make me pass for someone whom apply some fallacious logic, which I don't.

It's just an evidence that Superman, by feats, struggle a lot in fights just to avoid a single punch per panel.

That's largely an indicatiion of lack of combat speed that he shares with the other top tiers bricks and powerhouses because that's how comic book characters are designed.

Tertio :

You are going emotional and insulting me, which I don't understand because I'm really doing my best to stay civil under your obnoxious immature attitude.

I've learnt from my months posting of Comic Vine that I don't give a damn about how much that affects you. I'm not trying to have a "reaction" but to make you think twice about you are perceiving & interpretating what you are reading.

Just because I love to debate about fictional characters and I think that's pretty cool to imagine the choregraphy of two characters fighting.

Primo:

Some kind of real logic is used to evaluate if an idea is a fallacy or not. In this case real world logic will apply so we can evaluate if something is a fallacy or not.

Anyone with a minimal sense of debating rules will know this

Secundo:

Yes, your logic is faulty and full of fallacies. If you haven't read the forum debating rules I will suggest you do, there are PIS and CIS rules which you are conveniently brushing aside to fit into your argument.

Tertio:

Excuse me? But I haven't insulted you so far, having spent so many months on comic vine (not that I politely care) should have given you a pretty good idea that not everybody will agree with your ideas. And thanks but to me being capable of catching 300 random traveling bullets in a second it logically means I can punch you 300 times in a second, no need to listen to someone who does not follows the basic rules for debating or follows simple logic.

Now if you think... Whatever you want to think that is fine, but the MOD already gave a ruling on this topic a few pages ago. I will suggest for you to read it and stop with it with this idea wich is illinformed and fallacious at best. In my opinion 🙂

Originally posted by Delta1938
English isn't his first language, but he has a competent grasp of it, so he's not THAT stupid. He's just another worthless troll. Ignore him.

English isn't my first language either, but am not so blinded by unreasonable thoughts that i can't see what basic logic is.

Like you said, Warper's just a troll that refuses to use basic understanding and depictions of a ccharacters ability to perform certain moves.

Someone should PM one of the Mods to close this. Everyone, except the three stooges agrees that if a character can process thoughts in the nanosecond range, then moving there arms at that same speed or close to it, ain't so difficult.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
But Hulk can't 😏

He can punch at least 60 times in a sec.

Originally posted by carver9
He can punch at least 60 times in a sec.

Prove it! If you can't, then shut up.

Am so damn tired of you're double standards when it comes to characters you hate vs characters you love.

I've yet to read an arc that the Hulk as punch 60 times in less than second.

It's useless to argue with someone who doesn't wants to change his opinion no matter what.

It's best to ignore him.

Originally posted by SquallX
English isn't my first language either, but am not so blinded by unreasonable thoughts that i can't see what basic logic is.

No, what I meant was because English is not his first language, but he has a competent grasp, he can't be stupid enough to believe the bullshit he's pushing. Therefore that's why he's a troll.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It's useless to argue with someone who doesn't wants to change his opinion no matter what.

It's best to ignore him.

Originally posted by SquallX
Prove it! If you can't, then shut up.

Am so damn tired of you're double standards when it comes to characters you hate vs characters you love.

I've yet to read an arc that the Hulk as punch 60 times in less than second.

Prove that Surfer can punch 600 times a second and prove that Superman can punch 300 times in a sec

Originally posted by RealityWarper

There is some Geeks able to manage entire bases and hundreds of creatures with their hands moving at 300 action per minute in video games like Starcraft and I can guarantee you that they don't punch 300 time per minute...

FALLACIOUS LOGIC.

[B]Nope.

That means that he has the ability to take a decision one nanosecond after receiving a stimulus.

It doesn't mean that he has the ability to take one action per nanosecond. That's literally two different things.

No, just no.

A fallacious reasoning just leads you to a fallacious conclusion. [/B]

😂

You...certainly aren't too bright, are you?

You can't be serious? It's like you didn't even read specific, key words that I used that already accounted for what you said.

--In your first point, you gave a counter-example that basically hinges on physical fitness, and because of that becomes a ****ing apples to oranges comparison.

If one of those 'geeks' had the physical conditioning to punch for that long without getting tired, then they absolutely can punch 300 times per minute, seeing as that's doable in reality. Since there is nothing precluding a geek from being physically fit enough to perform this kind of action, this counter-example falls apart. 🙂

One of the quickest human beings you will ever see, Flyweight champion Demetrious Johnson, is one of the biggest geeks you could meet.

Oh, and breaking it down even more, since you had to stretch the timeline far enough to come to something representing a salient point, (and still failed at that), 300 mouse clicks per minute is...what? 5 mouse clicks per second?

Doesn't sound so impressive anymore, does it?

Likewise, continuing with that train of thought;

You think someone can't punch 5 punches per second? Even if they lack physical fitness and training, they can still abandon form and pull off 5 sloppy punches of SOME sort.
🙂

--Look at the word I used. React. React.

If someone physically reacts in a quarter of a second, (normal human reaction time) then absolutely then can punch a few times per second. More or less depending on fitness and training.

Likewise, if someone physically reacts in a nanosecond, then that would correlate to a proportionately what you'd expect.

Even if someone were to simply form an extremely basic thought in a nanosecond (which would be a slower person than someone who can physically react in the same time), then that still demonstrates physical speed, and it would be in-porportion with their perception speed. (Perception speed meaning brain-speed and reflexes in total) Or else, that character would see his own physical movements as sluggish, or even statue-esque, depending on how big the mental and physical speed disparity is.

Can you think of a single character whose brain speed is so much faster than his own body that he sees his body in slow motion? 🙂

And if you can, what does that character have to do with this discussion? 🙂

Originally posted by CosmicComet
😂

You...certainly aren't too bright, are you?

You can't be serious? It's like you didn't even read specific, key words that I used that already accounted for what you said.

--In your first point, you gave a counter-example that basically hinges on physical fitness, and because of that becomes a ****ing apples to oranges comparison.

If one of those 'geeks' had the physical conditioning to punch for that long without getting tired, then they absolutely can punch 300 times per minute, seeing as that's doable in reality. Since there is nothing precluding a geek from being physically fit enough to perform this kind of action, this counter-example falls apart. 🙂

One of the quickest human beings you will ever see, Flyweight champion Demetrious Johnson, is one of the biggest geeks you could meet.

Oh, and breaking it down even more, since you had to stretch the timeline far enough to come to something representing a salient point, (and still failed at that), 300 mouse clicks per minute is...what? 5 mouse clicks per second?

Doesn't sound so impressive anymore, does it?

Likewise, continuing with that train of thought;

You think someone can't punch 5 punches per second? Even if they lack physical fitness and training, they can still abandon form and pull off 5 sloppy punches of SOME sort.
🙂

--Look at the word I used. React. React.

If someone physically reacts in a quarter of a second, (normal human reaction time) then absolutely then can punch a few times per second. More or less depending on fitness and training.

Likewise, if someone physically reacts in a nanosecond, then that would correlate to a proportionately what you'd expect.

Even if someone were to simply form a thought in a nanosecond (which would be a slower person than someone who can physically react in the same time), then that still demonstrates physical speed, and it would be in-porportion with their perception speed. (Perception speed meaning brain-speed and reflexes in total) Or else, that character would see his own physical movements as sluggish, or even statue-esque, depending on how big the mental and physical speed disparity is.

Can you think of a single character whose brain speed is so much faster than his own body that he sees his body in slow motion? 🙂

And if you can, what does that character have to do with this discussion? 🙂

Troll is just gonna dismiss this as a "wall of text" despite dismantling his argument.

Starcraft is a bad example anyway, as their reactions are nothing more than muscle memory, rather than actual reactions.

They sit there and practice the same actions over and over and over again, until their conscious minds no longer govern their actions.

Originally posted by SquallX
Prove it! If you can't, then shut up.

Am so damn tired of you're double standards when it comes to characters you hate vs characters you love.

I've yet to read an arc that the Hulk as punch 60 times in less than second.

Nice that you don't apply the same logic to Superman...

So you have a scan of him punching 300 times per second to support your point of view, right ?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
😂

You...certainly aren't too bright, are you?

You can't be serious? It's like you didn't even read specific, key words that I used that already accounted for what you said.

--In your first point, you gave a counter-example that basically hinges on physical fitness, and because of that becomes a ****ing apples to oranges comparison.

If one of those 'geeks' had the physical conditioning to punch for that long without getting tired, then they absolutely can punch 300 times per minute, seeing as that's doable in reality. Since there is nothing precluding a geek from being physically fit enough to perform this kind of action, this counter-example falls apart. 🙂

One of the quickest human beings you will ever see, Flyweight champion Demetrious Johnson, is one of the biggest geeks you could meet.

Oh, and breaking it down even more, since you had to stretch the timeline far enough to come to something representing a salient point, (and still failed at that), 300 mouse clicks per minute is...what? 5 mouse clicks per second?

Doesn't sound so impressive anymore, does it?

Likewise, continuing with that train of thought;

You think someone can't punch 5 punches per second? Even if they lack physical fitness and training, they can still abandon form and pull off 5 sloppy punches of SOME sort.
🙂

--Look at the word I used. React. React.

If someone physically reacts in a quarter of a second, (normal human reaction time) then absolutely then can punch a few times per second. More or less depending on fitness and training.

Likewise, if someone physically reacts in a nanosecond, then that would correlate to a proportionately what you'd expect.

Even if someone were to simply form an extremely basic thought in a nanosecond (which would be a slower person than someone who can physically react in the same time), then that still demonstrates physical speed, and it would be in-porportion with their perception speed. (Perception speed meaning brain-speed and reflexes in total) Or else, that character would see his own physical movements as sluggish, or even statue-esque, depending on how big the mental and physical speed disparity is.

Can you think of a single character whose brain speed is so much faster than his own body that he sees his body in slow motion? 🙂

And if you can, what does that character have to do with this discussion? 🙂

The analogy about the geeks makes completely sense because that's EXACTLY your reasoning when it comes to Superman's combat speed.

You are actually making a transfer between several feats that will not help him being faster in a fight just because the kind of movements are totally unrelated.

I can see your double standards here. Congratulations.

My point is to show that the way you are reasoning EXACTLY looks like the analogy with the nerds but you completely missed the point and I'm "not so bright", right ?

Nope.
Superman's increased reaction time just allows him to take a decision faster than a normal human, in the case he don't have to think about it...

In a fight he is clearly incapable to react accordling and don't even fit the standards of a very well trained human like Deathstroke or Batman.

He is ****ing slow.

I already explained why the rest of your analogy is fallacious.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Starcraft is a bad example anyway, as their reactions are nothing more than muscle memory, rather than actual reactions.

They sit there and practice the same actions over and over and over again, until their conscious minds no longer govern their actions.

I gave a bad exemple on purpose because they are using bad analogies since the beginning in the same fashion.

Superman reading a bunch of books fast will never makes him a fast fighter or whatever stuff totally unrelated to combat.

@CosmicComet :

On top of that Superman don't come even close to hit someone 5 times per seconds...

Hell, just one panel represent already a few seconds and Superman's best feat is to hammerfist Parasite like 3 times in a single panel while delivering complete sentences.

Totally possible for an untrained human, slow and unimpressive.

Using speech as an indicator of time passing is iffy...

I mean, there's even a Trope named for it.

"Talking is a free action".

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Using speech as an indicator of time passing is iffy...

I mean, there's even a Trope named for it.

"Talking is a free action".

Writers use it to stretch the time passing in the action too.

Whatever you take the speech in consideration or not, 3 hits per panel is still slow.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
@CosmicComet :

On top of that Superman don't come even close to hit someone 5 times per seconds...

Hell, just one panel represent already a few seconds and Superman's best feat is to hammerfist Parasite like 3 times in a single panel while delivering complete sentences.

Totally possible for an untrained human, slow and unimpressive.

Here he is punching Orion at least twenty times in a panel.

How does that makes you feel?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or he is talking at superspeed.

Here he is punching Orion at least twenty times in a panel.

How does that makes you feel?

The panel is stretched down so we can see that the action is passing during a FAR longer time frame.

The action is decomposed and Superman isn't faster than usual.

He is still slow against Orion whom let himself get hit.

You are desperate proving that Slowperman as an actual combat speed.

Nice try, bud.

By the way "hitting more than 20 times" is totally stretching the scene when we have literally 5 onomatopeas indicating the number of impacts.

And in that comic it's made clear that they are punching at Supersonic speeds.

So more than twenty punches at Supersonic speeds.

I'd like to see Batman doing that.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Writers use it to stretch the time passing in the action too.

Whatever you take the speech in consideration or not, 3 hits per panel is still slow.

But we return to your first analogy, that of the Rubik's cube guy being a fast fighter.

That's still muscle memory. Even fighters rely on muscle memory - hence the sparring, and the drills, and the katas they do day in, day out.

Rubik's cube players practice constantly as well.

None of the examples used are actually any good - because they have practised 10,000 hours to become an expert. Hence, cross-training is impossible. Starcraft players aren't good fighters, nor are Rubik's cube solvers, or people who can play the piano blindingly fast.

Superman hasn't practised catching bullets (that I am aware of). He just does it.

He hasn't practised speed reading. Or bullet catching. Or any of the other things.

So HIS speed is NOT muscle memory - I'm sure the circle jerkers at DC would lovingly detail it if they could. Hell, Abhi would be the first to post it.

But he doesn't use muscle memory like the expert Starcraft players et al. He just does it.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
The panel is stretched down so we can see that the action is passing during a FAR longer time frame.

The action is decomposed and Superman isn't faster than usual.

He is still slow against Orion whom let himself get hit.

You are desperate proving that Slowperman as an actual combat speed.

Nice try, bud.

By the way "hitting more than 20 times" is totally stretching the scene when we have literally 5 onomatopeas indicating the number of impacts.

Fortunately, the writer made it clear that both Superman and Orion were punching at Supersonic speeds.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_sonicboompunches_zpsa989c4cb.png

At this point, you're a joke who is pulling excuses out of his ass.

But do continue, I'm enjoying this.