Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope, point me to the scan where he manipulated Speed force before it was even a concept.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, you have given your reasoning without any proof. So do I take your word on it? GTFO.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So the answer is degree but you think plants have the superpowers of metabolizing sunlight?
With plants it's not a superpower, all plants can. Then again all Kryptonians can too, so there goes the reasoning that me saying Surfer manipulating the power cosmic is his primary power equating to you saying that metabolizing sunlight is a his primary power.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, the subject is you distorting the established power sets of the characters to suit your agenda.Which is transparent BTW.
No the subject of this particular string of quotes was for you to claim...
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, you are applying double standards which you are very good at doing. Its one thing in case of surfer and other in case of any other character.
...when I've applied the same standard to 3 other characters in this very conversation.
Originally posted by abhilegend
"No you".You got reduced to that? Damn.
That's... not what I said abhi. I said that's it's difficult to tell whether you're being sarcastic. Because the choices are sarcastic and outright unreasonable and the latter happens so frequently.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, you are.Find it in your question. I hope you can read.
The only question was whether you had any reasoning for saying that my statements were false.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, you seem to think flying is something characters do in combat as an offensive move.Which is absurd. But its you so!
No you're trying to shift the focus. My point was never that he'd use his flying offensively more. But in case it's slipped your notice, flying IS something characters like Surfer and Supes do offensively in combat, it's called a bullrush.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah, the popularity fallacy. Never gets old.
It's not about popularity, it's about me bring right.
Originally posted by abhilegend
You are using it several times in a single post.😬
Point to them please. I mentioned that you lacked logic exactly ONE time. I may have DEMONSTRATED that you lacked logic, but only actually mentioned it in response to you saying you didn't care about my logic
Originally posted by abhilegend
Still parroting, I see. Any actual example of this rather than your "opinions"?
Are you seriously asking for examples of characters with versatile power sets...
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂Dat ego!
Hatred?
crylaugh
No, no. Again.
hysterical
That was a good one.
You act as though I'm the only one to see it...
Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, of course it does. Just like you think how only your opinion matters and run away when you don't get what you want.
Yet more baiting...
Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure, go ahead with your examples. I will match them as per my rules.
Just as soon as you give me a number. Also in regards to what you said about you and Celey having a completely different conversation, don't forget that in my first post I myself said...
Originally posted by darthgoober
Well give me a number, I'm genuinely interested in the prospect. How many speedblitzes can you produce for every versatility feat I post for Surfer from a fight?
To which you replied...
Originally posted by abhilegend
More than you can.
Originally posted by abhilegend
How many you can produce?
Doesn't work like that. See any number I say you will just respond isn't enough. I want the goal post set in stone before I even go to the trouble.
Originally posted by abhilegend
You don't know how many issues Surfer has appeared in? For shame.Use a calculator silly sally.
I'm asking for the number that would satisfy you. See Surfer's one of those characters who doesn't even always fight in his appearances so I wouldn't just need a calculator, I'd need to go through each issue one by one and see if he even engaged in combat.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Go cry to a mod then. I didn't create it.
It doesn't need to be changed, it applies to more than just speed as I've already demonstrated.
Originally posted by abhilegend
In character. For example: Surfer wouldn't use matter manipulation on living beings as he abhors it and is a pacifist by nature.
I'm not talking about out of character, I'm talking about in character. And just for the record, he's used matter manipulation on living beings before.
But just so we're clear, you concede that you were wrong about the rule only applying to speed, correct?
Originally posted by abhilegend
We are using characters here. Not power sets. Does Surfer uses weakness exploitation in character? No he doesn't.
That's a different discussion abhi, stop trying to change the subject. We've been talking about whether or not he'll use his VERSATILITY.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No I wasn't.
I just posted the rule, you were. You should really concede at this point.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure it doesn't. I don't throw a bitchfit about it.
Then stop ignoring he rule...
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. If I hated somebody over fictional characters, I wouldn't be here.
Sure you would abhi, sure you would...
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂Which to trust?
Those quotes are about two different things. The "I read it plenty" was in regards to you telling me to read what you said earlier in the thread.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I tell as I see.srug
Then you need glasses...
Originally posted by abhilegend
What baiting? The truth is truth.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And how exactly is that "rising above the beliefs"?
Because you don't care about the believes of others. Are you being sarcastic again or do you genuinely not understand?
Originally posted by abhilegend
That ship has long sailed.
No you've tried to set us off course, but I'm well aware of the topic.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Then you should read some more comics.
Or you could just show the ways in which it's permanently crippled Supes.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Like I said, the rule is wrong since kryptonite is not common knowledge.I would like you to prove otherwise.
In your words... whine to a mod.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And how does that equates to sensing weaknesses? Green Lanterns can do that too.
Stop trying to change the subject, the point is that the bio you like to flash around has been proven wrong on panel so you should stop using it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why was it a low showing? Where has Surfer physically destroyed a moon and survived to make it a low showing? Low showing is this.Funnily enough, just one issue prior to Surfer fighting in a black hole. A ship>black hole?
Well if he had to die to destroy a moon when he's destroyed planets unscathed it's obviously a low showing.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it was him colliding with the moon at that speed which killed him.
This isn't even a tangent worth arguing over when it's a low showing.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Like what showings?
Destroying planets without a scratch.
Originally posted by abhilegend
His powers got transferred means his weaknesses get transferred too. Think Parasite.
He's not Parasite. Any proof THIS guy absorbed weaknesses?
Originally posted by abhilegend
That he knows the weakness. Big deal, ransom skrulls know about it too.Where did he used it?
He didn't didn't need to because Gladz knew it was true.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So you have no scans or history of Surfer doing so but its his go to tactic?Why?
Because the only time it's come up the guy knew it was true and backed down,
Originally posted by darthgoober
Recton abhi, recton. He was always doing it.
Scan?
So you're still refusing to provide any reasoning of your own?
Nope. Read my posts carefully.
With plants it's not a superpower, all plants can. Then again all Kryptonians can too, so there goes the reasoning that me saying Surfer manipulating the power cosmic is his primary power equating to you saying that metabolizing sunlight is a his primary power.
That doesn't even makes any sense. You are too caught up on your own weird logic.
Bravo.
No the subject of this particular string of quotes was for you to claim that...
Not really.
...when I've applied the same standard to 3 other characters in this very conversation.
Which goes against their very defined powersets. You can't even keep your arguments straight.
That's... not what I said abhi. I said that's it's difficult to tell whether you're being sarcastic. Because the choices are sarcastic and outright unreasonable and the latter happens so frequently.
😂
Now when I'm being sarcastic, its me being unreasonable?
The only question was whether you had any reasoning for saying that my statements were false.
Yes, I've actually read the comics which prove you wrong.
No you're trying to shift the focus. My point was never that he'd use his flying offensively more. But in case it's slipped your notice, flying IS something characters like Surfer and Supes do offensively in combat, it's called a bullrush.
But here you are saying that he does flying more than blasting. So what is it?
It's not about popularity, it's about me bring right.
Which you are not.
Point to them please. I mentioned that you lacked logic exactly ONE time. I may have DEMONSTRATED that you lacked logic, but only actually mentioned it in response to you saying you didn't care about my logic
Perhaps you should read your posts before posting them then?
Are you seriously asking for examples of characters with versatile power sets...
No, tell me you can at least read.
You act as though I'm the only one to see it...
Maybe, maybe not. Don't give a flying **** about it.
Yet more baiting...
😂
Just as soon as you give me a number. Also in regards to what you said about you and Celey having a completely different conversation, don't forget that in my first post I myself said...
Just as soon as you inform how much you can give. Otherwise you'll just spin it again.
To which you replied...
How many times do I have to repeat it before you get it?
Doesn't work like that. See any number I say you will just respond isn't enough. I want the goal post set in stone before I even go to the trouble.
If you're just trying to get the last word, just say so.
Yes, I want that too. Just inform how much "very large number" of appearances mean and I will inform how many are 5%.
I'm asking for the number that would satisfy you. See Surfer's one of those characters who doesn't even always fight in his appearances so I wouldn't just need a calculator, I'd need to go through each issue one by one and see if he even engaged in combat.
That's not my problem now, is it? You claimed appearances wise. Not fight wise.
It doesn't need to be changed, it applies to more than just speed as I've already demonstrated.
You didn't demonstrated anything except your opinions.
Which are laughable BTW.
I'm not talking about out of character, I'm talking about in character. And just for the record, he's used matter manipulation on living beings before.
Not in character. Give me an example of him doing so.
But just so we're clear, you concede that you were wrong about the rule only applying to speed, correct?
What?
That's a different discussion abhi, stop trying to change the subject. We've been talking about whether or not he'll use his VERSATILITY.
No, it is not. Why are you so afraid of it anyway?
I just posted the rule, you were. You should really concede at this point.
Haha, what?
Then stop ignoring he rule...
Who said I was ignoring any rule?
Sure you would abhi, sure you would...
I'm not a surfer fanboy to hate someone over fictional characters.
Those quotes are about two different things. The "I read it plenty" was in regards to you telling me to read what you said earlier in the thread.
Heh. Shows how little you comprehend.
Then you need glasses...
You need a working brain.
Trying to get me to incite me into providing details of something that would get me into trouble is most definitely baiting.
Where did I even said about revealing anything about it? You are acting like its some forbidden secret or anything.
Geez, the ego.............
Originally posted by darthgoober
Because you don't care about the believes of others. Are you being sarcastic again or do you genuinely not understand?
I don't care about what anybody believes about me. Not that I don't take others' opinions in consideration.
I'm not you.
No you've tried to set us off course, but I'm well aware of the topic.
Oh really? The topic is Surfer vs JLA after all.
Or you could just show the ways in which it's permanently crippled Supes.
His healing factor takes care of the damage. Otherwise it has actually killed kryptonians.
In your words... whine to a mod.
I don't agree to the rule. That doesn't means I'm going to cry about it like you.
Stop trying to change the subject, the point is that the bio you like to flash around has been proven wrong on panel so you should stop using it.
And where is it proven wrong? Where did he use cosmic awareness to find icecream as you put it?
Well if he had to die to destroy a moon when he's destroyed planets unscathed it's obviously a low showing.
Energy blasts are different than physically destroying a moon.
This isn't even a tangent worth arguing over when it's a low showing.
😂
Its all a low showing.
Destroying planets without a scratch.
Physically? Where?
He's not Parasite. Any proof THIS guy absorbed weaknesses?
Yes, he was. He was essentially leeching the powers of the characters just like Parasite does.
Any proof that he didn't? Why didn't surfer scanned it and found it out? I thought it was his go to move?
He didn't didn't need to because Gladz knew it was true.
So a bluff?
😂
Because the only time it's come up the guy knew it was true and backed down,
Gladiator didn't even said anything. Lilandra ordered him down.
So your years of arguing was over a bluff?
😂
Originally posted by abhilegend
Scan?
A scan to prove that Flash's powers were rectonned lol
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. Read my posts carefully.
I have, you provided no reasoning whatsoever.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't even makes any sense. You are too caught up on your own weird logic.Bravo.
Sure it does. I've explained it thoroughly.
Originally posted by abhilegend
really.
Sure it was, I provided the initial quote to prove it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Which goes against their very defined powersets. You can't even keep your arguments straight.
I haven't gone against anyone's powersets by saying that Strange/Fate use magic/cast spells or that Flash manipulates the Speedforce.
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂Now when I'm being sarcastic, its me being unreasonable?
It was either or, not both.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, I've actually read the comics which prove you wrong.
But have in no way provided the reasoning which those comics provide to support your stance.
Originally posted by abhilegend
But here you are saying that he does flying more than blasting. So what is it?
He does do more flying than blasting, he flies pretty much all the time while he's fighting.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Which you are not.
Of course I am.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Perhaps you should read your posts before posting them then?
Feel free to show me otherwise.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, tell me you can at least read.
Yes and from what you said you're wanting proof there are characters with versatile powersets rather than one "primary power"
Originally posted by abhilegend
Maybe, maybe not. Don't give a flying **** about it.
Again, good for you.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Just as soon as you inform how much you can give. Otherwise you'll just spin it again.
I haven't spun anything abhi.
Originally posted by abhilegend
How many times do I have to repeat it before you get it?
So you concede that Surfer's used versatility more than Supes has blitzed?
Originally posted by abhilegend
If you're just trying to get the last word, just say so.Yes, I want that too. Just inform how much "very large number" of appearances mean and I will inform how many are 5%.
You're trying to twist things again abhi. You said...
Originally posted by abhilegend
Does he uses anything other than energy blasts and board attacks in most of his fights? I've read pretty much everything Surfer has ever done and I don't think he uses anything other than occasional energy manipulation.It's his primary power.
😬
I didn't say he used combat versatility in a very large number of appearances, but in a large number of FIGHTS. Again, Surfer doesn't always fight in the comics he pops up in.
And you made the comment about less than 5% first so... after you.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not my problem now, is it? You claimed appearances wise. Not fight wise.
See above. I was responding to your comment about him using it in FIGHTS, not
appearances. It would be silly to try to include appearances where he never fought at all.
Originally posted by abhilegend
You didn't demonstrated anything except your opinions.Which are laughable BTW.
I demonstrated the rule which said ALL POWERS and listed Flash/speed as an EXAMPLE.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not in character. Give me an example of him doing so.
Don't worry, we'll get there if you ever quit dodging.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What?
I posted the rule and it wasn't limited to speed.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it is not. Why are you so afraid of it anyway?
I'm not afraid of it, I'm just not going to let you derail the topic of this conversation.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what?
Again, I posted the rule and it wasn't limited to speed.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Who said I was ignoring any rule?
If Surfer using his versatility is established via forum rules and you go around claiming that he won't, then you're ignoring the rule.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm not a surfer fanboy to hate someone over fictional characters.
That word fanboy again...
Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh. Shows how little you comprehend.
No that's exactly what the quote was in reference to.
Originally posted by abhilegend
You need a working brain.
So you've been getting your ass kicked in this discussion by someone who lacks a working brain...
Originally posted by abhilegend
Where did I even said about revealing anything about it? You are acting like its some forbidden secret or anything.Geez, the ego.............
Oh you didn't ask or anything, but you're obviously trying to get me to defend myself against the BS you're spewing.
Barring one or two examples (Wally creating SpeedForce armour, for example), I never saw the Flash as a Speed Force manipulator. His speed comes from there, and he taps it as a source of his speed, but no one here says your car is manipulating gasoline, for example.
But that's MY view. And other views are also allowed.
Carry on *munch munch*
Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't care about what anybody believes about me. Not that I don't take others' opinions in consideration.I'm not you.
Obviously...
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh really? The topic is Surfer vs JLA after all.
The thread topic sure, but it's not the overall topic of this particular conversation.
Originally posted by abhilegend
His healing factor takes care of the damage. Otherwise it has actually killed kryptonians.
So he won't really be "crippled" now will he because his healing factor will prevent it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't agree to the rule. That doesn't means I'm going to cry about it like you.
You don't have to agree to the rule abhi, it still applies. Even in your debates...
Originally posted by abhilegend
And where is it proven wrong? Where did he use cosmic awareness to find icecream as you put it?
One of his more recent issues with Dawn.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Energy blasts are different than physically destroying a moon.
If that was the only way for him to destroy the moon then it was obviously a low showing.
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂Its all a low showing.
In this case obviously.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Physically? Where?
If he NEEDED to to it that way then it was obviously a low showing.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, he was. He was essentially leeching the powers of the characters just like Parasite does.Any proof that he didn't? Why didn't surfer scanned it and found it out? I thought it was his go to move?
Stop trying to turn him into Parasite, any proof THIS GUY absorbed weaknesses?
Originally posted by abhilegend
So a bluff?😂
Nope.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Gladiator didn't even said anything. Lilandra ordered him down.So your years of arguing was over a bluff?
😂
You're the only one thinking it was a bluff, and we all know the only reason you think that is because of your hatred of Surfer.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Barring one or two examples (Wally creating SpeedForce armour, for example), I never saw the Flash as a Speed Force manipulator. His speed comes from there, and he taps it as a source of his speed, but no one here says your car is manipulating gasoline, for example.But that's MY view. And other views are also allowed.
Carry on *munch munch*
Originally posted by darthgooberThe faster Flash moves, the more he's tapping into the speed force itself... But he's not really 'manipulating' it, per se.
You know you LOVE Soarin Norrin lolHey you're a Flash fan, has it ever been said that Flash does what he does by manipulating the Speedforce?
However, when we start talking about kinetic energy absorption, healing, and the other esoteric abilities he(and other speedsters) have used over the years, then that is when we start talking about actual manipulation of the SF itself.
This factoid was noted by Savitar:
http://i.imgur.com/iK1P2EH.jpg
He was the one who first made Wally realize that the real power of the SF doesn't come from just running fast. Manipulation of the SF is what gleans/unlocks its true power.
So in answer to your question: when Flash is just running, he's not manipulating the SF--he's just tapping it. When he preforms the aforementioned exotic abilities, however, he is manipulating the SF.
Originally posted by Galan007
The faster Flash moves, the more he's tapping into the speed force itself... But he's not really 'manipulating' it, per se.However, when we start talking about kinetic energy absorption, healing, and the other esoteric abilities he(and other speedsters) have used over the years, then that is when we start talking about actual manipulation of the SF itself.
This factoid was noted by Savitar:
http://i.imgur.com/iK1P2EH.jpgHe was the one who first made Wally realize that the real power of the SF doesn't come from just running fast. Manipulation of the SF is what gleans/unlocks its true power.
So in answer to your question: when Flash is just running, he's not manipulating the SF--he's just tapping it. When he preforms the aforementioned exotic abilities, however, he is manipulating the SF.
Originally posted by darthgooberIt's a perspective thing, I suppose.
See I always saw channeling/tapping it for speed as manipulating it to a degree. I mean if you were to channel electricity from the atmosphere through your body to produce a blast of electricity from your hands couldn't it be said that you manipulated the electricity from the air?
When Wally runs fast, he is typically tapping the SF subconsciously. However, when he steals kinetic energy, for example, he has to consciously think about manipulating the SF in a very precise/complicated manner--he's applying it in a completely different way.
While I suppose both are *technically* forms of manipulation, it's still pretty easy to differentiate between them. It's essentially: "subconscious vs. conscious." Most would agree the latter is usually regarded as the 'truer' form of manipulation.
But again, it's all about perspective. /shrug
