Kurse vs. General Zod

Originally posted by TH3_V01D

''BLA BLA BLAH, IM a butthurt MCU fanboy because DIsn... errmm MArvel Studios make Thor look like a weak *****''

Then again this is the dude who was knocked out by a boulder and was afraid of a little blackhole grenade

He is also the guy who can dish out more damage than all the kryptonians put together in a single strike. And tank explosions that were bigger than every single thing that happened in MOS put together. And thats a fact that anybody who has seen the movies and is honest with themselves can see. So who is the fanboy?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
In some shots, but not every time she fought, where YOU'VE speculated that she deliberately stopped using super speed because she was overconfident, even though it was quite evident she was desperate to stop Supes, and kept getting smacked by him.

Yes, she's a cocky little scamp, I know. Probably why she ended up getting killed in the end instead of chasing down that balding soldier guy/blitzing everyone in that plane. But I guess nobody's perfect.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes, that they've already shown us that these Kryptonians have super speed, and don't need to keep showing them sprinting at those speeds again and again.

Absence of evidence is now evidence to you?

Seriously, you jest. And at this point, you're in pure denial mode. It's begining to look like no amount of logic will sway you from your little fantasy, is there any reason for this debate to go forward? One can only make their point for so long before the other side going "lalala, I'm not listening" becomes tedious.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And they did show Zod move at superspeed, when he was flying, and spinning Supes around.

https://youtu.be/HnAw3E_mLh8

(3:31-3:36)

Wait 6-7 revolutions in 4-5 seconds is superspeed now?

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: REAL WORLD SUPERSPEED (as interpreted by Darth Thor):

https://youtu.be/4qx2dQnyfU8

Edit. Heck, I can probably beat that. Here, hold my beer.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Again, they weren't consistent in the way they were depicting that, even with that 1 character.

Again, you don't seem to be getting...

They don't have to consistently depict it. They just have to simply depict it. That would be proof enough.

Geez, how can you not get this?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The flying around was pretty super speed, as was the spinning Kal around.

Fast flying sure. Spinning around? Well, for that, see above.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Now you don't find it strange Zod's "normal speed" punches were leaving those lines behind them in a way that's much more exaggerated from the speed blur you get from a normal boxer?

Ambigous shockwaves =/= proof. Onus is on you to prove that those "lines" meant that the punches were at superspeed.

I mean, come on man, is the totality of your argument on spinning and punch-lines?

Strangely enough, that's what your entire argument is amounting to: Spinning the truth that's nothing more than a punch-line at this point.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No because you've failed to address the visuals of those fights which don't come from normal speed punches.

I don't have to address them. Onus is on you to prove that the punches were at super speed. I can just sit here, say no and my stance is more valid than yours.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You've also failed to address they were flying around at incredible speeds, reacting to each other's bull rushes at those speeds, and reacting to the buildings and other objects around them at those speeds.

Speed is relative to your point of reference. You can react to fast speeds given sufficient distance or if you are able to match velocities with said speeding object.

Pilots and racecar drivers do this all the time. Doesn't mean they can react at super speed.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
THX's fact file confirms what was kind of obvious. That the Krpytonians can move and react at super speed 😬

Annnd then here we are, resorting to bio's as he can't find "feats" to support his argument. Bios when there is literally an entire 10 min fight that can be used to support his stance.

Be honest here, I'm guessing you're desperate to prove Zod had superspeed in his MoS fight and no amount of logic is going to convince you. Is there still a point to discussing?

Originally posted by Robtard
>edits to try and cover up his ignorance
>forgets he's called Johanhan Kent "step" multiple times before

You know I did get a bit confused when he said Kal will let his "step" Mother get raped in BvS. I assumed he meant Ma Kent and said "step" accidentally. But this comment of yours it's clear he doesn't grasp the difference.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
We do actually also see Nam-Ek cause a sonic boom right before jumping to take out the one jet, during the Smallville fight. So even he displays bursts of superspeed. Around 1:35.

YouTube video

That could be interpreted as a shockwave caused by him stomping hard on the ground for his leap as he was already generating shockwaves (from the air distortions on screen) with every step.

A sonic boom would mean that he would be seen moving before the sound could be heard. Didn't happen here.

I'll be honest, tho. I have no problem in ppl saying that Kryptonians can bullrush (forward momentum leaps/lunges) very fast. It is a partial manifestation of their ability to fly. I have issue with ppl saying that Kryptonians (at this point of the story) has super speed reaction although they refuse to present any kind of quantitative proof.

So people want us to take a bios word over that of the movie itself?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yes, she's a cocky little scamp, I know. Probably why she ended up getting killed in the end instead of chasing down that balding soldier guy/blitzing everyone in that plane. But I guess nobody's perfect.

You're grasping at straws tbh.

She was clearly desperate to stop Supes and was getting embarrassed by him. There was literally not one bit of cockiness in that scene.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Absence of evidence is now evidence to you?

Seriously, you jest. And at this point, you're in pure denial mode. It's begining to look like no amount of logic will sway you from your little fantasy, is there any reason for this debate to go forward? One can only make their point for so long before the other side going "lalala, I'm not listening" becomes tedious.

You sound. Yes Kryptonians having super speed is a little fantasy I made up LOL

I also wrote the Fact file out of my fantasy LOL

Originally posted by Nibedicus
https://youtu.be/HnAw3E_mLh8

(3:31-3:36)

Wait 6-7 revolutions in 4-5 seconds is superspeed now?

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: REAL WORLD SUPERSPEED (as interpreted by Darth Thor):

https://youtu.be/4qx2dQnyfU8

Yeah let's just count the rotations and completely ignore how he was accelerating and how fast he was shown moving by that last rotation.

Seriously you sound mad insane with jealousy over Krytonian speed.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Again, you don't seem to be getting...

They don't have to consistently depict it. They just have to simply depict it. That would be proof enough.

Geez, how can you not get this?

Which they did. Plenty. If you weren't so mad you'd see it:

Fighting while flying at speeds creating sonic booms. Reacting to each other and everything around them at those speeds. Leaving lines behind the punches depicting speed blurs, and sonic booms.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Fast flying sure. Spinning around? Well, for that, see above.

Yes you should do that.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Ambigous shockwaves =/= proof. Onus is on you to prove that those "lines" meant that the punches were at superspeed.

I mean, come on man, is the totality of your argument on spinning and punch-lines?

Yes you're right. We should completely ignore those lines. And you shouldn't even give an hypothesis of what those lines were supposed to represent.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Strangely enough, that's what your entire argument is amounting to: Spinning the truth that's nothing more than a punch-line at this point.

Yeah you should really being so mad, it's crippling your "argument".

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I don't have to address them.

Ah yes of course you don't. LETS JUST BE BLIND EVERYONE!

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Onus is on you to prove that the punches were at super speed. I can just sit here, say no and my stance is more valid than yours.

No you just sitting there and saying "no" to all my arguments would amount to you Trolling.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Speed is relative to your point of reference. You can react to fast speeds given sufficient distance or if you are able to match velocities with said speeding object.

Pilots and racecar drivers do this all the time. Doesn't mean they can react at super speed.

Yeah because race car drivers drive at the speed of sound, and pilots maneuver around skyscrapers al the time facepalm

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Annnd then here we are, resorting to bio's as he can't find "feats" to support his argument. Bios when there is literally an entire 10 min fight that can be used to support his stance.

Yes let's just be Blind, ignoring the Obvious, and ignoring the Bios confirming the obvious. Bravo!

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Be honest here, I'm guessing you're desperate to prove Zod had superspeed in his MoS fight and no amount of logic is going to convince you. Is there still a point to discussing?

LOL Why would I be desperate? I haven't even given my stance on this fight, I've just intervened against the ridiculous stance that Zod and Superman have no superhuman speed. You however are clearly Raging as if some Superman fan used to beat you up as a kid.

Logic? Let's see your logic for a second:

1. Faora is the only Kryptonian that moves at superspeed, because she's the only one we saw spriniting. Except for the one time Superman also did to dodge the Jet plane fire.

2. Superman blocked and hit Faora more than she could hit him in a desperate combat on both sides. OBVIOUSLY SHE WAS BEING COCKY.

3. Several artistic hints are made during Zod's and Superman's punches showing lines clearly depicting speed blurs and sonic booms. LET'S JUST IGNORE THEM.

4. ANY Race Car Driver or Pilot can maneuver around buildings at Supersonic speeds while punching their opponents.

5. Let's also turn a Blind Eye to any fact files confirming the obvious depiction of super speed.

That about sums it up right? 👆

Originally posted by Nibedicus
That could be interpreted as a shockwave caused by him stomping hard on the ground for his leap as he was already generating shockwaves (from the air distortions on screen) with every step.

A sonic boom would mean that he would be seen moving before the sound could be heard. Didn't happen here.

If you choose to interpret that as a footstomp shockwave, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Not only does the final shockwave not look at all to me like the dust and distortion he kicked up earlier, the direction of the wave isn't consistent with a footstomp either. And at that distance from him, considering he takes off and they cut right after the leap, the sound/visual difference shouldn't have been much. To me it lines up with what was stated in that bio, about Kryptonian acceleration. If you disagree, that's fine. This is not the first time you and I have had this discussion actually (we had it in the Zod vs Shaw and another speed specific thread you made IIRC), and we got virtually nowhere last time either. Opinions just differ sometimes.

Now if DC is really nice they will put a scene in Batman vs Superman, showing some of the ground parts of the Zod/Clark fight from Bruce's perspective, and give us a definitive answer on how fast they were moving. Either way, we'd finally know for sure.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So people want us to take a bios word over that of the movie itself?

No, it's just confirmation of what the artist depiction was portraying in the movie. Turning a blind eye to it however amounts to a motive to prove otherwise.

End of the day if Thor's bio said he has superspeed, we'd be jumping all over it. If however it said something ridiculous like he moves and reacts at the speed of Light, then we'd take it with a massive grain of salt, if at all.

You would be more accurate if you said that you consider it confirmation of what you want the scenes to mean. I've already explained why I don't consider throwing punches while flying to be true combat superspeed ala Quicksilver or Metro Man.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You're grasping at straws tbh.

She was clearly desperate to stop Supes and was getting embarrassed by him. There was literally not one bit of cockiness in that scene.

Yes, monologing during a fight, stopping to soak bullets even though she didn't have to. Staring down a much weaker opponent instead of just finishing them off. That is all signs of overconfidence.

You're using weak ABC logic and downright ignoring ON SCREEN showings to create a narrative. The punch he blocked was obviously not at super speed, him tripping her not really him moving at super speed either. He bumrushed her with his flight pretty fast, no disputing that. But saying "superspeed" cuz he fought someone with superspeed is piss poor reasoning. And you don't want me to use this kind of logic when it comes to Kurse as Mjolnir has comparable flight speeds as Zod/Superman at their best and he reacted to it with his back turned. Twice.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You sound. Yes Kryptonians having super speed is a little fantasy I made up LOL

I also wrote the Fact file out of my fantasy LOL

That's not the argument here is it? Let's not move the goalposts now.

You said that Zod in MoS has superspeed. I asked for proof. Not lousy baseless extrapolations.

And ppl who go to fact files (w/c you didn't even bother posting a link to, btw) and bios is desperation (when there is a WEALTH of evidence that one should be able to get in a long as multi-mins fight). What else could you call it?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah let's just count the rotations and completely ignore how he was accelerating and how fast he was shown moving by that last rotation.

Ok, let's not. How fast was he going? Pls quantify.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Seriously you sound mad insane with jealousy over Krytonian speed.

Just annoyed that you would keep insisting something when you HAVE to know the entire foundation of your argument has holes bigger than the Grand Canyon.

Let me repeat how evidence works: I don't have to prove Zod has no superspeed. You have to prove he does.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Which they did. Plenty. If you weren't so mad you'd see it:

For Faora, sure. For Zod? If he does, quantify with timestamps pls.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Fighting while flying at speeds creating sonic booms.

Flight is not super speed reactions. Seriously this basic stuff.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Reacting to each other and everything around them at those speeds.

Pilots react at Mach speed in dogfights. They are not superhuman.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Leaving lines behind the punches depicting speed blurs, and sonic booms.

Ambiguous shockwaves is not quantitative proof. Seriously, you should know this.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes you should do that.

I actually did 8 spins in 5 seconds. I must be Zod plus.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes you're right. We should completely ignore those lines. And you shouldn't even give an hypothesis of what those lines were supposed to represent.

Yes, because one cannot use guesses as evidence when debating. You are certainly welcome to theorize what those lines mean but you sure as hell can't use them as quantitative proof when making a debate. Again, basic stuff here, man.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah you should really being so mad, it's crippling your "argument".

How is it crippling my argument? I don't have to prove anything here. Onus is on you. Again, I can sit here, say no and my position would still be more valid than yours as you have provided nothing but spinning punchline theories.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ah yes of course you don't. LETS JUST BE BLIND EVERYONE!

Being blind is bad, sure. But living in a fantasy world isn't any better.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No you just sitting there and saying "no" to all my arguments would amount to you Trolling.

Yes, because No is more valid than anything you've typed up so far. Insisting that flying spinning and punch lines = super speed is the epitome of flimsy evidence. You basically have nothing and feel that by repeating it over and over, you can somehow convince ppl of it.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah because race car drivers drive at the speed of sound, and pilots maneuver around skyscrapers al the time facepalm

Cars can't run at the speed of sounds and pilots don't maneuver near buildings for a reason like shattering glass and endagering public safety. facepalm

But are you saying human pilots can't maneuver around city blocks when they have to?

And are you saying flight speed maneuvering = super speed now? Is this your new line of logic?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes let's just be Blind, ignoring the Obvious, and ignoring the Bios confirming the obvious. Bravo!

LOL Why would I be desperate? I haven't even given my stance on this fight, I've just intervened against the ridiculous stance that Zod and Superman have no superhuman speed. You however are clearly Raging as if some Superman fan used to beat you up as a kid.

For a theory to be fact, you need to quantify it and prove it without a shadow of a doubt. With the wealth of material you have been provided to look for said proof, this should have been an easy task. If you cannot amidst the wealth of material provided, you have to concede to the fact that your entire line of logic has enormous holes in it and you're using HUGE leaps of logic to justify something that should have been easily proven in the first place.

Raging? Really? Where did this happen in what I previously typed? I'm genuinely curious where you got this idea. I don't seem to see anything emotional in my posts here. I was using pure argumentative statements.

I, however, have expressed the possibility that (with your type of reasoning) you might well be very attached to forcing your view when the entire basis of argument has been weak at best. And that such attitudes tend to make debates degrade and become pointless (and thus I ask if there is still a point to all this).

It was a legitimate question. Although, admittedly I could have worded it a bit less confrontationally.

Originally posted by Darth Thor

Logic? Let's see your logic for a second:

1. Faora is the only Kryptonian that moves at superspeed, because she's the only one we saw spriniting. Except for the one time Superman also did to dodge the Jet plane fire.

2. Superman blocked and hit Faora more than she could hit him in a desperate combat on both sides. OBVIOUSLY SHE WAS BEING COCKY.

3. Several artistic hints are made during Zod's and Superman's punches showing lines clearly depicting speed blurs and sonic booms. LET'S JUST IGNORE THEM.

4. ANY Race Car Driver or Pilot can maneuver around buildings at Supersonic speeds while punching their opponents.

5. Let's also turn a Blind Eye to any fact files confirming the obvious depiction of super speed.

That about sums it up right? 👆

You seem to be misrepresenting my logic. Let me correct:

1) Each Kryptonian was portrayed differently. They made great pains to show that they each had individual advantages and disadvantages. They also took great pains to show that the Kryptonians portrayed in the movie were still learning their abilities. I have no doubts that Kal El will eventually develop Faora's speed (probably showcase it in BvS). But as for MoS, they did NOT portray any of Superman's and Zod's fights at super speed.

And no one is disputing that Superman can leap/fly very fast. Although getting hit by that A-10 strafing run was pretty sad as he DID have a good 4 seconds from start of strafe to dodge. Thor actually did better in Avengers when it came to dodging jet fire. 😂

2) We don't definitively know why Faora didn't use her superior speed against Supes. I am merely speculating that this may well be due to her obvious portrayed (many times) overconfidence. The very same thing that got here killed in the end.

What we DO know is that from simply LOOKING at the punches (visual evidence-one of the strongest form of evidence out there), they sure as hell weren't thrown at super speed. You cannot dispute this, thus you create a fantasy that somehow the "artistic depiction" of the director was to NOT show superspeed punches being thrown at superspeed and we should just take your word for it.

3) These punch-lines themselves weren't even clear enough for the audience to clearly see and you somehow think that ambiguous punch lines is a clear depiction of super speed by the director instead of just (y'know) showing the punches being thrown at superspeed? I mean seriously? Don't you see the flaw of that entire line of reasoning?

4) Pilots don't punch each other while flying. Wait.... If what you're trying to argue that travel speed translates to reaction speed, tell you what, I'd like you to go to the comic book forums and argue that. If you convince them that Silver Surfer being able to travel at superluminal speeds = him having superluminal reaction time then I would gladly concede this fact.

5) Movie showings >>>> Bios. We can get a mod ruling here if you want.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
If you choose to interpret that as a footstomp shockwave, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Not only does the final shockwave not look at all to me like the dust and distortion he kicked up earlier, the direction of the wave isn't consistent with a footstomp either. And at that distance from him, considering he takes off and they cut right after the leap, the sound/visual difference shouldn't have been much. To me it lines up with what was stated in that bio, about Kryptonian acceleration. If you disagree, that's fine. This is not the first time you and I have had this discussion actually (we had it in the Zod vs Shaw and another speed specific thread you made IIRC), and we got virtually nowhere last time either. Opinions just differ sometimes.

Now if DC is really nice they will put a scene in Batman vs Superman, showing some of the ground parts of the Zod/Clark fight from Bruce's perspective, and give us a definitive answer on how fast they were moving. Either way, we'd finally know for sure.

I'll be honest. I'm sure we're all movie lovers first before we are battleboard posters. Well at least most of us.

I watched MoS WAITING for the superspeed scenes. I expected it. I wanted it. MoS was supposed to be what the Avengers fight scenes should have been if they didn't nerf the characters just to make the movie more palatable to the mass market.

But at the end of the Kal vs Zod fight, I'm sure I was not the only person who was disappointed and went "where the eff is the superspeed gotdangit!!"

If they show superspeed in the BvS fight and retcon the Zod vs Superman fight from Bruce's perspective to have been at superspeed, then I will gladly come back here and retract.

Til then, I suggest we wait and follow what is visually quantifiable. And when we simply use visual observation, it would be pretty easy to see that Zod's movements and reactions were hardly superspeed.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
5) Movie showings >>>> Bios. We can get a mod ruling here if you want.

If they choose to go the mod route, Make sure they don't ask the mod a loaded question in order to get the answer they want. the question should be "do bios overrule what the movies actually show".

Originally posted by Silent Master
If they choose to go the mod route, Make sure they don't ask the mod a loaded question in order to get the answer they want. the question should be "do bios overrule what the movies actually show".

Agreed.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, the problem I have with this line of reasoning is that it lies on the premise that they were unwilling (or unable) to show instances of superspeed because they wanted the audience to be able to keep track of the fight. Things is:

1) it has already been shown within this very movie that they CAN show (and make it look nice as well) superspeed in combat. Faora was moving in super speed, she was fighting in superspeed and she did it vs humans, visible to the environment and in comparison to the other Kryptonians in the movie. So it's not as if they were unwilling to show super speed in fights (in fact it looked cooler and made more sense than the slightly faster than human-speed fighting Zod and Clark did).
2) that if they wanted to (as most the fight was done with a lot of CGI), with minimal cost difference/effort, put in some environmental effects that can be used as a quantitative representation of speed (like they did for the One or Matrix). Bear in mind, as shown by my math of the Zod wall run, they took pains in order to make the scenes/timing match up and correlate with each other.
3) that if they wanted to show SOME super speed, they had plenty of time and opportunities to actually show individual spots within the fight where it can be shown that they are behaving/punching/reacting in super speed, I mean the fight was pretty freakin long. Even one or two showings would have been sufficient for people to believe "they are fighting in super speed, wow!". But why didn't they?

I'm not sure of the argument at hand here... You seem to think I'm claiming that they were punching at the speed they were flying. I never made such a claim, and in fact, I made it clear they weren't imo. My point was. not to try and calculate how fast they were punching, nor to prove that the director actually believed they were punching at flying speed just wanted us to see the action. Again, I in fact claimed he didn't likely believe that. The ONLY line of thinking I'm debating here is this notion that they were punching at human level speed. I couldn't disagree more with that line of thought. It's both illogical and unsound line of deduction to come to that conclusion.

However, let's expand on the points you brought up. The ONLY time somebody was shown at fighting at those speed was Faora
1. So the more logical line of thinking there is that Faora is just faster than Zod or Superman in h2h combat not that Superman and Zod were punching at human level

2. Bear in mind also, when Zod and Superman were fighting on the ground, they seemed to be punching faster than while flying. I'll expand on that further below as that seemed to be a common theme.

To go further, the ONLY time somebody was shown fighting at that speed was on ground, by faora, and never once while flying. The examples of this are plentiful:

1. Superman flying and punching Zod in there first encounter
2. Nam and Superman briefly being in the air exchanging punches
3. Zod and Superman in their final fight

In every instance where there were punches exchanged in the air while moving... we see no super speed punches. Which could then lead us here:

1. It's very difficult to show flying speed AND super fighting speed. The camera is already zooming around trying to let the audience see what's happening. With as fast they were moving at points, that is hard enough to capture, let alone adding the same level of punching speed as flying. The would make the task even harder to make the audience be able to see

or, and equally more logical than they were punching at human level speed

2. The ONLY time it was shown, was by Faora, and as noted above she could just be plain faster than either. But that doesn't mean they were punching at human level speed. The director was simply illustrating she was faster...

3. More importantly, the ONLY time it was shown was by Faora while fighting people with human level reactions. The more logical conclusion there is, we were perceiving her movements through their eyes. To them, she would be just a blur, and that makes perfect logical sense. However, when fighting people with enhanced reactions and speed, it's not perceived as fast. That is a more logical line of thinking than... they can only punch at human level speed.

Again though, I'm not sure what thinking I was arguing there, but I'll be your huckleberry and argue devils advocate.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I'm curious why the marvel fans think Kurse has greater durability then Zod. His showings prove he can outdo Thor in a straight up fight but when it comes to massive durability it's not really there.

You mean besides the obvious of Zod being physically beaten 3 separate occasions and Kurse never once being physically beaten? We should be the one asking this question not the other way around. Kurse's durability seemed unquestionably better. He was no selling attacks from a super powered being as if they were nothing. Zod been taken out by punches twice, and by getting his neck snapped. Getting put down 3 times doesn't make you more durable than the guy never put down physically.. it's the opposite

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I'll be honest. I'm sure we're all movie lovers first before we are battleboard posters. Well at least most of us.

I watched MoS WAITING for the superspeed scenes. I expected it. I wanted it. MoS was supposed to be what the Avengers fight scenes should have been if they didn't nerf the characters just to make the movie more palatable to the mass market.

But at the end of the Kal vs Zod fight, I'm sure I was not the only person who was disappointed and went "where the eff is the superspeed gotdangit!!"

If they show superspeed in the BvS fight and retcon the Zod vs Superman fight from Bruce's perspective to have been at superspeed, then I will gladly come back here and retract.

Til then, I suggest we wait and follow what is visually quantifiable. And when we simply use visual observation, it would be pretty easy to see that Zod's movements and reactions were hardly superspeed.

Well, it is somewhat up to interpretation, due to how things were represented onscreen. The sheer fact that this topic has been rehashed in at least half a dozen threads and people still don't fully agree is enough proof of that. Like I said, at this point it is probably best to just agree to disagree if opinions vary. As I pointed out, this is not the first time we have discussed, and had disagreements, on this topic.

For that argument to be true, IE that we were merely seeing a superspeed fight from their perspective, the rest of the world would look to be moving in slow motion in relation to them.

Can you post a clip where things in the background are moving in slow motion in comparison to them?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The whole background thing is an artistic choice. Started with the Matrix. Not every artist wants to depict speed this way. In fact it wasn't even depicted that way with Faora.

So again what were those lines Zod's punches were leaving behind.

Yeah, difference is they weren't sitting in a jet.

They were reacting to opponents bullrushing them at the speed of sound. And they were flying around city blocks at very high super speeds reacting to where they were moving, and not just smashing through buildings all the time.

Lol at artistic choice. You know what's artistic choice? Streaks from your punches, that's what.

The streaks could have come from their strength, or the shockwaves they created. What's clear though is that the speed wasn't superspeed. You have ZERO proof of that. I gave you clear proof and you dismiss it as "artistic choice".

Also false comparison to The Matrix. When the fights in the Matrix slowed down, even the background slowed down. Everything slowed down. Not true in this movie, everything is still happening in normal time yet we see the punches. That just goes to prove that the punches are happening in normal, real time.

Kryptonians are simple the strongest showing of any superhero's on screen to date. Its obvious as hell to see Zod is stronger, faster and smaller and more durable. He beats Kurse in every category.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm not sure of the argument at hand here... You seem to think I'm claiming that they were punching at the speed they were flying. I never made such a claim, and in fact, I made it clear they weren't imo. My point was. not to try and calculate how fast they were punching, nor to prove that the director actually believed they were punching at flying speed just wanted us to see the action. Again, I in fact claimed he didn't likely believe that. The ONLY line of thinking I'm debating here is this notion that they were punching at human level speed. I couldn't disagree more with that line of thought. It's both illogical and unsound line of deduction to come to that conclusion.

However, let's expand on the points you brought up. The ONLY time somebody was shown at fighting at those speed was Faora
1. So the more logical line of thinking there is that Faora is just faster than Zod or Superman in h2h combat not that Superman and Zod were punching at human level

2. Bear in mind also, when Zod and Superman were fighting on the ground, they seemed to be punching faster than while flying. I'll expand on that further below as that seemed to be a common theme.

To go further, the ONLY time somebody was shown fighting at that speed was on ground, by faora, and never once while flying. The examples of this are plentiful:

1. Superman flying and punching Zod in there first encounter
2. Nam and Superman briefly being in the air exchanging punches
3. Zod and Superman in their final fight

In every instance where there were punches exchanged in the air while moving... we see no super speed punches. Which could then lead us here:

1. It's very difficult to show flying speed AND super fighting speed. The camera is already zooming around trying to let the audience see what's happening. With as fast they were moving at points, that is hard enough to capture, let alone adding the same level of punching speed as flying. The would make the task even harder to make the audience be able to see

or, and equally more logical than they were punching at human level speed

2. The ONLY time it was shown, was by Faora, and as noted above she could just be plain faster than either. But that doesn't mean they were punching at human level speed. The director was simply illustrating she was faster...

3. More importantly, the ONLY time it was shown was by Faora while fighting people with human level reactions. The more logical conclusion there is, we were perceiving her movements through their eyes. To them, she would be just a blur, and that makes perfect logical sense. However, when fighting people with enhanced reactions and speed, it's not perceived as fast. That is a more logical line of thinking than... they can only punch at human level speed.

Again though, I'm not sure what thinking I was arguing there, but I'll be your huckleberry and argue devils advocate.

There are a variety of ways to show superspeed if the director really wanted to. (and with their budget, they would have had more than enough to get it done). Such as:

-Slowing down the environment (well within their budget) to create a reference point to visualize that they are viewing said fight from an enhanced perceptional speed.
-Blur the movement. Not the most attractive style but it would have achieved the same thing.
-Show at LEAST one instance of multiples of punches being thrown within an impossible time frame (a single rapid punch ala Matrix flurry would have been enough).

Thing is, they really didn't have to do it throughout the whole fight. A few seconds would have been convincingly enough.

I wouldn't say their punches were faster on the ground. They were just in close range and the punches would come quicker when you don't have to be shown flying towards your opponent from a distance to deliver a blow. Although I'd like to see the scene where you think their punches were being delivered faster than while flying.

Thing is, the sad part about Faora is that she really wasn't able to fly and she was the only one shown with any kind of finesse with how she used her speed to attack her opponents. So we can't really see her flying around using superspeed as she never gained the ability.

You make decent points, but it still comes down to the fact that had they wanted to showcase superspeed, it would have been done with little/no problem. Fact is they didn't and that is very telling.