Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I'm curious why the marvel fans think Kurse has greater durability then Zod. His showings prove he can outdo Thor in a straight up fight but when it comes to massive durability it's not really there.
I never argued that, actually. As we never saw Kurse's blunt force durability taken to its limit, he was hit by a full-rage charged Mjolnir throw from behind tho and he either easily tanked it or managed to intelligently deflect it the last scond. Either eay, it didn't seem like it hurt him at all (0:21):
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm with you for the most part in this argument, though I would back away from those punches being Human level. I think it's kind of silly to assert that those punches were done at human level speed. I agree they weren't done as fast as they were traveling. But they were faster than human level as well. It's one of these things I've argued before. The director wants the audience to see what the heck is going on. IF they had them fight as fast they were traveling, we wouldn't be able to see a thing. Now I'm not going extreme and saying the director believes they can throw punches as fast as they are flying. However, I wouldn't use the background or people around them to say they were punching at human level speed. That also doesn't make sense. I'd choose some place in the middle to low-middle as to how fast they were punching compared to flying. Again though, it's not enough punching speed that Kurse wouldn't be able to react to, and that is the bottom line here.
Well, the problem I have with this line of reasoning is that it lies on the premise that they were unwilling (or unable) to show instances of superspeed because they wanted the audience to be able to keep track of the fight. Things is:
1) it has already been shown within this very movie that they CAN show (and make it look nice as well) superspeed in combat. Faora was moving in super speed, she was fighting in superspeed and she did it vs humans, visible to the environment and in comparison to the other Kryptonians in the movie. So it's not as if they were unwilling to show super speed in fights (in fact it looked cooler and made more sense than the slightly faster than human-speed fighting Zod and Clark did).
2) that if they wanted to (as most the fight was done with a lot of CGI), with minimal cost difference/effort, put in some environmental effects that can be used as a quantitative representation of speed (like they did for the One or Matrix). Bear in mind, as shown by my math of the Zod wall run, they took pains in order to make the scenes/timing match up and correlate with each other.
3) that if they wanted to show SOME super speed, they had plenty of time and opportunities to actually show individual spots within the fight where it can be shown that they are behaving/punching/reacting in super speed, I mean the fight was pretty freakin long. Even one or two showings would have been sufficient for people to believe "they are fighting in super speed, wow!". But why didn't they?
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I'm curious why the marvel fans think Kurse has greater durability then Zod. His showings prove he can outdo Thor in a straight up fight but when it comes to massive durability it's not really there.
Because Thor's punch is strong enough to turn Hulk 360 yet didn't even budge Kurse. Because Kurse has been hit by Asgardian weapons and it didn't seem to hurt him whereas Zod has never been hit by any alien weapon yet. Because in the end, it took a blackhole grenade to end Kurse but only a neck snap for Zod.
Does that automatically mean Kurse's durability is better? Not necessarily, but he certainly has the better feats.
A necksnap from Superman, FAR stronger than any MCU Hero/Villain going by feats and his OFFICIAL DCEU character bio.
Already put official info about DCEU Superman and his powers so I dont see why you insist on putting Thor on the same level as Superman, he doesnt have his speed, durabilty or strenght.
Superman would necksnap Thor or any asgardian without problems, so you point doesnt make sense.
A little blackhole grenade killed Kurse, ¿guess what? Superman survived a bigger one just flying away from it and Zod was kicking his ass without problems, not to mention tanking Superman punches and orbital re entry without a single scratch.
Black holes are not problem for fully powered DCEU Kryptonians.
Kurse is nothing more than a slower Nam Ek
Originally posted by TH3_V01DBaseless claims, fanboy.
A necksnap from Superman, FAR stronger than any MCU Hero/Villain going by feats and his OFFICIAL DCEU character bio.
Already put official info about Superman powers so I dont see why you keep putting Thor on the same level as Superman.Superman would necksnap Thor or any asgardian without problems, so you point doesnt make sense.
A little blackhole grenade killed Kurse, ¿guess what? Superman survived a bigger one just flying away from it and Zod was kicking his ass without problems, not to mention tanking Superman punches and orbital re entry without a single scratch.
Black holes are not problem for fully powered DCEU Kryptonians.
Originally posted by TH3_V01D
A necksnap from Superman, FAR stronger than any MCU Hero/Villain going by feats and his OFFICIAL DCEU character bio.
Already put official info about DCEU Superman and his powers so I dont see why you insist on putting Thor on the same level as Superman, he doesnt have his speed, durabilty or strenght.Superman would necksnap Thor or any asgardian without problems, so you point doesnt make sense.
A little blackhole grenade killed Kurse, ¿guess what? Superman survived a bigger one just flying away from it and Zod was kicking his ass without problems, not to mention tanking Superman punches and orbital re entry without a single scratch.
Black holes are not problem for fully powered DCEU Kryptonians.
Kurse is nothing more than a slower Nam Ek
The singularity grenade and the "black hole" that Superman flew through were 2 completely different things and exerted different types of forces as shown by the movies.
And anyone using them as a basis of comparison like those 2 were exactly the same would be completely duplicitous.
Originally posted by TH3_V01Dshow us this bio please? Because as of right now Thors high end offense and the explosions he has tanked literally shits all anything the Kryptonians did. In fact, if you took every single punch that was thrown by a. kryptonian and put them together, they still would not equal the amount of damage that Thor has beeen able to do with a single strike. Lol at superman taking any kind of black hole. I own the movie and it is one of my favorites but listening to people like you claim shit with no evidence makes me want to break it.
A necksnap from Superman, FAR stronger than any MCU Hero/Villain going by feats and his OFFICIAL DCEU character bio.
Already put official info about DCEU Superman and his powers so I dont see why you insist on putting Thor on the same level as Superman, he doesnt have his speed, durabilty or strenght.Superman would necksnap Thor or any asgardian without problems, so you point doesnt make sense.
A little blackhole grenade killed Kurse, ¿guess what? Superman survived a bigger one just flying away from it and Zod was kicking his ass without problems, not to mention tanking Superman punches and orbital re entry without a single scratch.
Black holes are not problem for fully powered DCEU Kryptonians.
Kurse is nothing more than a slower Nam Ek
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm with you for the most part in this argument, though I would back away from those punches being Human level. I think it's kind of silly to assert that those punches were done at human level speed. I agree they weren't done as fast as they were traveling. But they were faster than human level as well. It's one of these things I've argued before. The director wants the audience to see what the heck is going on. IF they had them fight as fast they were traveling, we wouldn't be able to see a thing. Now I'm not going extreme and saying the director believes they can throw punches as fast as they are flying. However, I wouldn't use the background or people around them to say they were punching at human level speed. That also doesn't make sense. I'd choose some place in the middle to low-middle as to how fast they were punching compared to flying. Again though, it's not enough punching speed that Kurse wouldn't be able to react to, and that is the bottom line here.
👆 Exactly.
They need to make the fight visible to us, but not every movie wants to do the slow motion background thing. So there are other ways for the Director to show these hits are supposed to be superhuman in every way.
Like I said before, MOS made it much more clear that these fights were taking place at superhuman speeds than Star Wars ever did. And I'm sure you don't think Mace and Palpatine fought as slow as Sam Jackson and Ian Mcdiarmid.
Only problem is it becomes very difficult to quantify that speed.
MOS also showed combat at super speeds well beyond what normal humans who can fly (like Iron Man and Human Torch) have shown in other comic book movies.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
👆 Exactly.They need to make the fight visible to us, but not every movie wants to do the slow motion background thing. So there are other ways for the Director to show these hits are supposed to be superhuman in every way.
Like I said before, MOS made it much more clear that these fights were taking place at superhuman speeds than Star Wars ever did. And I'm sure you don't think Mace and Palpatine fought as slow as Sam Jackson and Ian Mcdiarmid.
Only problem is it becomes very difficult to quantify that speed.
MOS also showed combat at super speeds well beyond what normal humans who can fly (like Iron Man and Human Torch) have shown in other comic book movies.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, the problem I have with this line of reasoning is that it lies on the premise that they were unwilling (or unable) to show instances of superspeed because they wanted the audience to be able to keep track of the fight. Things is:1) it has already been shown within this very movie that they CAN show (and make it look nice as well) superspeed in combat. Faora was moving in super speed, she was fighting in superspeed and she did it vs humans, visible to the environment and in comparison to the other Kryptonians in the movie. So it's not as if they were unwilling to show super speed in fights (in fact it looked cooler and made more sense than the slightly faster than human-speed fighting Zod and Clark did).
2) that if they wanted to (as most the fight was done with a lot of CGI), with minimal cost difference/effort, put in some environmental effects that can be used as a quantitative representation of speed (like they did for the One or Matrix). Bear in mind, as shown by my math of the Zod wall run, they took pains in order to make the scenes/timing match up and correlate with each other.
3) that if they wanted to show SOME super speed, they had plenty of time and opportunities to actually show individual spots within the fight where it can be shown that they are behaving/punching/reacting in super speed, I mean the fight was pretty freakin long. Even one or two showings would have been sufficient for people to believe "they are fighting in super speed, wow!". But why didn't they?
Essentially, you have nothing but speculation.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Essentially, you have nothing but speculation.
Actually TH3 posted a fact file on the previous page confirming MOS Supes moves faster than sound and reacts at the same speeds.
You don't get Artistic depictions are not the same for every Director. Not everyone has to copy the Matrix to depict super speed LOL
Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm confused here. It was specifically shown in the fights that their punches were done at normal speed. Again, this is proven by all the background cars and flames moving at normal speed and the punches also moving at normal speed. Yet you want us to completely disregard this and use shockwaves (that are probably more from impact than speed) as proof of superspeed?
The whole background thing is an artistic choice. Started with the Matrix. Not every artist wants to depict speed this way. In fact it wasn't even depicted that way with Faora.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Sorry dude, I'm judging the speed of something based on its, you know, speed. In this fight, it was clear that they were throwing punches at normal speed.
So again what were those lines Zod's punches were leaving behind.
Originally posted by FrothByte
If I was sitting in a jet traveling at mach 1 and I punched the person beside me, does that mean I'm capable of superspeed punches? Because that's basically what Superman and Zod were doing. It's the theory of relativity.
Yeah, difference is they weren't sitting in a jet.
They were reacting to opponents bullrushing them at the speed of sound. And they were flying around city blocks at very high super speeds reacting to where they were moving, and not just smashing through buildings all the time.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Actually TH3 posted a fact file on the previous page confirming MOS Supes moves faster than sound and reacts at the same speeds.You don't get Artistic depictions are not the same for every Director. Not everyone has to copy the Matrix to depict super speed LOL
You understand we don't use bios here as evidence, right?
You don't also grt that wishing evidence to exist doesn't make it suddenly appear.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
The whole background thing is an artistic choice. Started with the Matrix. Not every artist wants to depict speed this way. In fact it wasn't even depicted that way with Faora.
Yes, they depicted Faora's super speed as her moving very fast. facepalm
Something they didn't do for Zod. Doesn't that tell you something?
Your entire line of "artistic depiction" falls to the fact they DID choose to "artistically depict" one character in the same movie doing one thing but opted not to do it for another.
I mean don't you find it strange that anytime in a long-ass, heavily FXd fight scene where 2 guys were going all out, you couldn't find one convincing showing of superspeed that you can bring in to argue with?
Seriously, you understand onus is on you to prove they fought in superspeed, right? And with the fight lasting a good 10+ minutes, you should have plenty of indisputable proof. I can literally sit here and just go "nope" and my argument would be more valid than yours.
Originally posted by NibedicusYes, they depicted Faora's super speed as her moving very fast. facepalm
In some shots, but not every time she fought, where YOU'VE speculated that she deliberately stopped using super speed because she was overconfident, even though it was quite evident she was desperate to stop Supes, and kept getting smacked by him.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Something they didn't do for Zod. Doesn't that tell you something?
Yes, that they've already shown us that these Kryptonians have super speed, and don't need to keep showing them sprinting at those speeds again and again.
And they did show Zod move at superspeed, when he was flying, and spinning Supes around.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Your entire line of "artistic depiction" falls to the fact they DID choose to "artistically depict" one character in the same movie doing one thing but opted not to do it for another.
Again, they weren't consistent in the way they were depicting that, even with that 1 character.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I mean don't you find it strange that anytime in a long-ass, heavily FXd fight scene where 2 guys were going all out, you couldn't find one convincing showing of superspeed that you can bring in to argue with?
The flying around was pretty super speed, as was the spinning Kal around.
Now you don't find it strange Zod's "normal speed" punches were leaving those lines behind them in a way that's much more exaggerated from the speed blur you get from a normal boxer?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Seriously, you understand onus is on you to prove they fought in superspeed, right? And with the fight lasting a good 10+ minutes, you should have plenty of indisputable proof. I can literally sit here and just go "nope" and my argument would be more valid than yours.
No because you've failed to address the visuals of those fights which don't come from normal speed punches.
You've also failed to address they were flying around at incredible speeds, reacting to each other's bull rushes at those speeds, and reacting to the buildings and other objects around them at those speeds.
THX's fact file confirms what was kind of obvious. That the Krpytonians can move and react at super speed 😬
We do actually also see Nam-Ek cause a sonic boom right before jumping to take out the one jet, during the Smallville fight. So even he displays bursts of superspeed. Around 1:35.