Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
In no way shape or form is Bucky faster... that is a completely false. Ozy by feats, is faster with better reactions. By A LOT. Bucky isn't certainly not more skilled, this must be another joke. Ozy is decisively more skilled than Bucky. The only thing Bucky has going for him is he's hard to put down, but Ozy will do so, while laughing at him
I'll post the videos when I can.
Originally posted by Robtard
WS's bionic-arm punched into concrete iirc, that's going to wear down Ozy even when blocking.WS takes this in the long run.
He also pushed Cap back while using the shield by just pushing forward. And he yanked an entire steering column out of it's housing as well as embedded the shield in a vehicle by tossing it.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Unless you think Cap just sits on his booty for years and not trying to improve, than I don't know what you're asking for. We're talking about someone who is constantly training and constantly trying to improve himself and test himself. It's like this... If I try and lift an awkward table the first time and I struggle... the next time I'll know how to lift it better. Thus I lift it easier and cleaner. That doesn't mean I studied a book on technique of lifting a table... just simply doing things you learn about leverage and what works best. I fully believe it's in character for Cap to be constantly trying to learn new things and improve himself through training. That is what he does. However, even if you somehow believe he doesn't, he'd still learn through experience. You disagree?
As I said previously, for your theory to make sense you need to provide proof that shows Cap using a different technique for his latter films than he did for his earlier films.
You'd actually need to prove that Cap was using an incorrect technique at first.
Now imagine the Cap vs. Bucky fight having those slo-mo Snyder effects that make things look "enhanced "
Ozy wasn't pulling his punches.
If Cap wasnt pulling his punched against normal people he would punch their heads clean off. Like he punched though reinforced submarine glass. WS punched though street concrete like nothing.
Watched these fights and tell me Ozy is faster and more skilled?
Bucky was taking his from Cap and was still coming for him.
What are Ozy's durability feats again?
Also be aware that Bucky is fighting another enhanced person. Ozy fought normal dudes.
When Bucky fights Widow (someone that is in Nite Owls tier) , her best bet is to run away from him. Even after having him in a choke with that wire of hers.
We are basing these vs. fights off of screen feats.
Originally posted by Inhuman
Now imagine the Cap vs. Bucky fight having those slo-mo Snyder effects that make things look "enhanced "
Ozy wasn't pulling his punches.
If Cap wasnt pulling his punched against normal people he would punch their heads clean off. Like he punched though reinforced submarine glass. WS punched though street concrete like nothing.
Watched these fights and tell me Ozy is faster and more skilled?
Bucky was taking his from Cap and was still coming for him.
What are Ozy's durability feats again?
Also be aware that Bucky is fighting another enhanced person. Ozy fought normal dudes.
When Bucky fights Widow (someone that is in Nite Owls tier) , her best bet is to run away from him. Even after having him in a choke with that wire of hers.We are basing these vs. fights off of screen feats.
Huh? You posted videos that prove my EXACT point is rather odd. I never, not once saw Bucky sending people flying the way Ozy was doing in the video you posted. He was literally moving them 10 or more feet most times with his blows. That is decisively above what WS displayed. To even pretend Bucky is stronger or more skilled is you trying to be funny, not serious. Those weren't "normal" dudes, and Ozy was literally treating them like feebs. He was doing so with the greatest of ease, and by greatest of ease, I mean them not even landing a blow throughout most of the fight. Sometimes with his back turned. He was fast enough to kick, and at the same time, quickly move to throw a chair before he could react and fire correctly. These weren't above human level foes. They weren't regular humans by any means. They'd be classified as at the very least peak human or superhuman.
Imagine somebody striking a normal human with enough concussive force to send him flying 10 feet or more. With kicks puches and throws. While also getting slammed face first into concrete staire. Each one of those separate blows could kill a man, and would certainly KO any normal human. Even a peak human (hence the superhuman). Yet here, they still got up over and over. Normal dudes LOL.
The reality is this, WS isn't Cap, and Ozy is simply above him. In every meaningful category Ozy wins. He's faster, more skilled and he's stronger. Look at him effortlessly fly in the air 20 feet in an instant. For God's sake, this movie was made long before graffics and special effects of today, or even WS. But for God's sake just listen to the swoosh noises that continually happen when Ozy is making somebody miss or jumps in the air. Clearly trying to show that he's moving at fast speeds, and faster then them bya significant margin. Which makes sense, seeing as the treated them like slow feebs. Guys who were treating strong tough guys like feebs. Yeah, those guys.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I never, not once saw Bucky sending people flying the way Ozy was doing in the video you posted. He was literally moving them 10 or more feet most times with his blows. That is decisively above what WS displayed.
Bucky wasnt fighting mere Joe Shmo's either. He was fighting Cap. You know the character that routinely throws, punches, and kicks people and sends them flying. The same character that chucks motorcycles at people. The same character that beat an elevator full of highly trained Shield agents. Etc,,,. Yeah, i'm not surprised he didnt send Cap flying (which he did somewhat a couple times with a kick and then just tossing him).
You over estimate the characters that Ozy beat too. Rorschach? The guy got over powered and apprehended by cops for goodness sakes. Night Owl? His best feats are beating up a few street thugs and some prisoners. Comedian? I dont even remember what the Comedian did except for looking like an old, broken down man.
Ozy is good but Cap and Bucky are on a different level.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiBucky's strength is near the level of Cap's and he sent at least one guy flying with a casual kick.
Huh? You posted videos that prove my EXACT point is rather odd. I never, not once saw Bucky sending people flying the way Ozy was doing in the video you posted.
You need to watch the movie again.
Originally posted by Mindset
Bucky's strength is near the level of Cap's and he sent at least one guy flying with a casual kick.You need to watch the movie again.
Yeah, Bucky sent that guy flying about 30 feet in distance and probably about 15 feet up, and the guy was still flying at an upward angle when he impacted the quinjet engine. And he did it with a casual straight thrust kick.
I actually rechecked the bit where he kicked the guy. He actually seemed to reach the peak of his flight as he hit the jet, but the kick is still easily on the same level as anything we have seen Ozy do.
And I actually also noticed a reaction feat for Bucky I missed before. Right before he does said kick, one of the other SHIELD pilots raises a rifle and starts firing at WS at near point blank range, but Bucky is fast enough to pull his metal arm up and block the bullets, before one-shotting the guy, after which he proceeds to kick the other pilot into the engine.
I think Ozy has the required speed and skill to hang with WS, also for a prolonged amount of time. What I see as the deciding factor in the end is the arm of WS, which I recall even Cap had issues fighting against in their initial encounter. And if Cap had issues against the arm, then Ozy most certainly will as well.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiAgreed with this
In no way shape or form is Bucky faster... that is a completely false. Ozy by feats, is faster with better reactions. By A LOT. Bucky isn't certainly not more skilled, this must be another joke. Ozy is decisively more skilled than Bucky. The only thing Bucky has going for him is he's hard to put down, but Ozy will do so, while laughing at him
Ozy is definitely faster and more skilled. The dude caught a bullet. Thats more impressive than just dodging. Its also not aim dodging for whoever said that earlier in the thread. Ozy clearly moved after the bullet was shot. His arms were are his side and he flung them up to catch the bullet. This comfortably makes him a bullet timer. On top of this, his blows also break concrete (like WS) and marble (which is harder than concrete). He threw a larger than average man through bullet proof glass you'd have to "step on the gas just to put a crack in." His jumps have cleared a good 30-40 feat across and 20 feet upwards. He fought both Nite Owl and Rorschach casually, while sustaining a calm monologue. They didn't connect one hit, showing this wasn't him struggling even slightly.
He also let Nite Owl, who has also sent men flying with his punches, as well as broken bones with single strikes, lay into his face with multiple and repeated free punches like Cap did with WS metal arm. He came out of it with no real injuries. WS, even if he manages to tag Ozy a few times, will not take down Ozy with the few hits he manages to connect (which wont be many, if any). Ozy, on the other hand, is definitely strong enough to hurt WS with his punches, and he will be peppering him with them. Sooner or later, WS goes down.
The only stat WS has him in is strength. He also hasn't shown that to be a very huge gap.
Originally posted by FrothByte
As I said previously, for your theory to make sense you need to provide proof that shows Cap using a different technique for his latter films than he did for his earlier films.You'd actually need to prove that Cap was using an incorrect technique at first.
The onus is on you actually. We go by what is more logical here, and that is where the onus lies.
You feel Cap is stagnant, and isn't constantly trying to learn and improve himself, AND that he hasn't already improved himself technique wise
I feel Cap is constantly trying to improve himself, and no doubt would've learned a great deal about technique and leverage over the years. Even if he wasn't constantly reading and practicing technique and leverage, as I've shown, simply doing things makes you learn about them.
Now which of those two do you think is more likely? Clearly No. 2, without question. Thus you need to prove Cap hasn't gained any knowledge that would've improved his technique for lifting things. I feel that's a given.
Originally posted by tkitna
Bucky wasnt fighting mere Joe Shmo's either. He was fighting Cap. You know the character that routinely throws, punches, and kicks people and sends them flying. The same character that chucks motorcycles at people. The same character that beat an elevator full of highly trained Shield agents. Etc,,,. Yeah, i'm not surprised he didnt send Cap flying (which he did somewhat a couple times with a kick and then just tossing him).You over estimate the characters that Ozy beat too. Rorschach? The guy got over powered and apprehended by cops for goodness sakes. Night Owl? His best feats are beating up a few street thugs and some prisoners. Comedian? I dont even remember what the Comedian did except for looking like an old, broken down man.
Ozy is good but Cap and Bucky are on a different level.
You're right Ozy is on a whole other level. It's Ozy. Just watch the damn fights. He was moving super human dudes over 10 feet with each punch and kick he landed. Shit, he wasn't even looking at them sometimes and was still able to block their blows effortlessly. Stop being disingenuous. Ozy was plain superior to Bucky on EVERY level. He's faster, he's more skilled, he's smarter, he's stronger and he's more agile. It's literally all there for everybody to see. Bucky was not moving people with his blows the way Ozy was. Bucky gets owned, Hard.
Originally posted by Mindset
Bucky's strength is near the level of Cap's and he sent at least one guy flying with a casual kick.You need to watch the movie again.
He's not Cap level, he lost. Further, he's not as strong, Period. Ozy was sending guys flying with almost every kick and punch he threw WHILE NOT GETTING A BLOW LANDED ON HIM. On the contrary, bucky was barely moving people the way Ozy was, and he got hit way more. Ozy poops all over Bucky skill wise.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also LOL at the Watchmen "was made long before graffics and special effects of today" argument. That film came after the Matrix trilogy, The One, multiple X-men films, multiple Spiderman films, as well as Iron Man and Incredible Hulk.
Right, and not one single movie you named (based on comics) showed high speed h2h combat encounters. Not one. Not a single X-Men movie... Not spiderman.. not Iron Man, not Incredible Hulk... NONE of the movies based on comics. The swoosh noises that we kept hearing as Ozy was dodging punches and kicks was supposed to represent how much faster he was moving than them. Was it not? What were those sounds supposed to imply?