Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I actually rechecked the bit where he kicked the guy. He actually seemed to reach the peak of his flight as he hit the jet, but the kick is still easily on the same level as anything we have seen Ozy do.

And I actually also noticed a reaction feat for Bucky I missed before. Right before he does said kick, one of the other SHIELD pilots raises a rifle and starts firing at WS at near point blank range, but Bucky is fast enough to pull his metal arm up and block the bullets, before one-shotting the guy, after which he proceeds to kick the other pilot into the engine.

No that kick isn't on the level of what Ozy did. Nice try though. Even if you want to assume it is (wasn't as far), the reality is, Ozy did it almost with every move. Bucky barely ever did it. My evidence > than yours. Ozy is questionably stronger based on feats, and without a doubt more skilled. Faster isn't even close. Get back to me when bucky can catch a bullet.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Agreed with this

Ozy is definitely faster and more skilled. The dude caught a bullet. Thats more impressive than just dodging. Its also not aim dodging for whoever said that earlier in the thread. Ozy clearly moved after the bullet was shot. His arms were are his side and he flung them up to catch the bullet. This comfortably makes him a bullet timer. On top of this, his blows also break concrete (like WS) and marble (which is harder than concrete). He threw a larger than average man through bullet proof glass you'd have to "step on the gas just to put a crack in." His jumps have cleared a good 30-40 feat across and 20 feet upwards. He fought both Nite Owl and Rorschach casually, while sustaining a calm monologue. They didn't connect one hit, showing this wasn't him struggling even slightly.

He also let Nite Owl, who has also sent men flying with his punches, as well as broken bones with single strikes, lay into his face with multiple and repeated free punches like Cap did with WS metal arm. He came out of it with no real injuries. WS, even if he manages to tag Ozy a few times, will not take down Ozy with the few hits he manages to connect (which wont be many, if any). Ozy, on the other hand, is definitely strong enough to hurt WS with his punches, and he will be peppering him with them. Sooner or later, WS goes down.

The only stat WS has him in is strength. He also hasn't shown that to be a very huge gap.

I agree with every thing you said, though I would disagree that Bucky is stronger. Ozy was literally sending men flying over 10 feet with almost every blow. The strength needed to send grown men flying like that, would be pretty substantial. He was sending people flying farther than Bucky with his blows. So that to me means Ozy is stronger than Bucky. At worst let's say he can't punch more than Bucky, he certainly has more functional strength when it comes to h2h combat.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He's not Cap level, he lost. Further, he's not as strong, Period. Ozy was sending guys flying with almost every kick and punch he threw WHILE NOT GETTING A BLOW LANDED ON HIM. On the contrary, bucky was barely moving people the way Ozy was, and he got hit way more. Ozy poops all over Bucky skill wise.

FOH

If you watch those 2 clips i posted , Cap & bucky fighting speed and skill are better than Ozy. Ozy does had good reaction time but that is against opponents that are below Cap or Bucky in stats.
Again if you watch when Ozy is fighting with Nite owl, the fighting speed is slower than the Bucky , cap fight. this is not debatable. Its there in the video.
So what are Ozys best durability feats? No answer yet.
Nite Owl and Rorschach are in Black widow and Hawkeye tier. And this is basing it off of Nite Owl and Rorschach only having feats of beating up common fodder.
The bullet reaction was impressive but could be argued that Ozy knew it was coming. Still doesnt mean that all his reactions are going to be bullet timing reactions. Like I said his fight with Nite Owl didnt show any super fast movements, especially not thee same speed as the Cap , bucky fight.

Wont be an easy fight , but Bucky wins in the end. Better feats , strength, durability, skill, speed, etc against people above Ozy.

KT knows that he's lost, that is why he is currently spam posting.

Originally posted by Mindset
You didn't even know Bucky could send someone flying with a kick.

FOH

Ummm, Ozy didn't it vastly more times and with utter ease. WS doing it once, doesn't match up to Ozy. Not even close. Ozy poops on him, and monologues while doing it.

Originally posted by Inhuman
If you watch those 2 clips i posted , Cap & bucky fighting speed and skill are better than Ozy. Ozy does had good reaction time but that is against opponents that are below Cap or Bucky in stats.
Again if you watch when Ozy is fighting with Nite owl, the fighting speed is slower than the Bucky , cap fight. this is not debatable. Its there in the video.
So what are Ozys best durability feats? No answer yet.
Nite Owl and Rorschach are in Black widow and Hawkeye tier. And this is basing it off of Nite Owl and Rorschach only having feats of beating up common fodder.
The bullet reaction was impressive but could be argued that Ozy knew it was coming. Still doesnt mean that all his reactions are going to be bullet timing reactions. Like I said his fight with Nite Owl didnt show any super fast movements, especially not thee same speed as the Cap , bucky fight.

Wont be an easy fight , but Bucky wins in the end. Better feats , strength, durability, skill, speed, etc against people above Ozy.

It wasn't just reaction, he's simply THAT fast for God's sake. If he can move his hand fast enough to catch a bullet AFTER it was fired... he's faster than Bucky or Cap. Point blank. Do you know how fast you'd have to be able to move your arm into position to catch a bullet, but only moved your arm AFTER the bullet was fired. That arm movement and reaction poops over anything either Cap or Bucky has done. Neither are faster than Ozy and it's being disingenuous to even pretend they are.

Stronger, I've already proven incorrect. We saw Ozy literally sending guys flying over 10 feet with almost every punch and kick. He was doing so with the utmost of ease, like he was barely trying. Yet he was still sending guys flying. The strength required to send guys flying to far is crazy. Yet he was doing so with the greatest of ease while seemingly barely trying. Thus he's stronger, or at the very least, he's functionally stronger when it comes to h2h combat

Durability... did you not see him getting whaled on without even trying to block or roll with the punches and it doing absolutely nothing to him. It literally did nothing to him. We're talking about getting whaled on by a guy who was tooling strong tough guy types as if they were nothing. Yeah, id say he can take the few blows Bucky will end up landing on him just fine.

Their skill level aren't even comparable. This is the least close category of all of them. Ozy is in a whole other league of skill compared to Bucky. Just simply watching the fights makes this abundantly clear. I could show the videos to 8 year old kids and ask them.. Who looks more skilled here? Each and every one of them would say Ozy. Why? Because it's THAT easy to see that a 8 year old could pick it out. Here's a guy who didn't have a single blow landed on him, sometimes with his back turned, and was effortlessly sending them flying when he countered. Bucky never had such a display and the ease in which Ozy displayed it. It's a joke to even say Bucky is as skilled as Ozy, and if you think so, we should just end this discussion now. I can't move forward with anybody who actually believes Bucky is as skilled. No way no how.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Ummm, Ozy didn't it vastly more times and with utter ease. WS doing it once, doesn't match up to Ozy. Not even close. Ozy poops on him, and monologues while doing it.

You are clearly unprepared to debate this topic.

Originally posted by Mindset
You didn't think WS could do it at all.

You are clearly unprepared to debate this topic.

Didn't think he could? My only statement was that Ozy has done so regularly, and WS has not done so regularly. Which is 100% factual. I never once said WS couldn't do it, simply that he's not on Ozy level in doing so. He's not.

WS is comparable in strength to Cap, with his bionic-arm being even stronger.

Considering that Cap is stronger than Ozy, we can safely conclude that WS is also stronger than Ozy.

Proof:

Ozy sends 155(+/-)lbs Rorschach flying like a soccer ball with a kick

Cap throws a 700lbs motorcycle with enough force to destroy a Land Rover

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Right, and not one single movie you named (based on comics) showed high speed h2h combat encounters. Not one. Not a single X-Men movie... Not spiderman.. not Iron Man, not Incredible Hulk... NONE of the movies based on comics. The swoosh noises that we kept hearing as Ozy was dodging punches and kicks was supposed to represent how much faster he was moving than them. Was it not? What were those sounds supposed to imply?

Yeah, because Spiderman was never depicted with enhanced senses, or shown to perceive and react to things at heightened speed, and X3 didn't have a legit speedster in Callisto, with fight scenes showing her blitz Storm... 😐

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No that kick isn't on the level of what Ozy did. Nice try though. Even if you want to assume it is (wasn't as far), the reality is, Ozy did it almost with every move. Bucky barely ever did it. My evidence > than yours. Ozy is questionably stronger based on feats, and without a doubt more skilled. Faster isn't even close. Get back to me when bucky can catch a bullet.

More downplaying from the downplayer. That kick easily matches it, whether you want to admit it or not. The guy didn't travel the full distance because he flew right into a quinjet before he could. He was only reaching the peak of his flight there, so would have gone nearly double that distance before actually landing. And the fact that he did it proves he can, whether he decided to do it against everyone or just one person.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Didn't think he could? My only statement was that Ozy has done so regularly, and WS has not done so regularly. Which is 100% factual. I never once said WS couldn't do it, simply that he's not on Ozy level in doing so. He's not.

So saying "never, not once" now means "not done so regularly". And while referring to strikes of "10 feet or more", which we have proof of Bucky doing.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He was moving super human dudes over 10 feet with each punch and kick he landed.

Here's the whole problem. Nite Owl and Rorschach arent super human. Why do you feel they are? It has never been stated anywhere that they are. They are nothing more than decently skilled street levelers.

Wasn't Rorschach outrunning gunfire from the cops before they kicked his ass?

I don't recall him ever running fast enough to break the sound barrier.

He was running down a corridor while some cops on a staircase tried to fire at him from it, but it wasn't really "outrunning bullets". A protagonist avoiding a hail of fodder gunfire is hardly anything new to action scenes. Arrow and his team do it virtually every other week.

And to be fair, he wouldn't necessarily need to break the sound barrier to outrun "a bullet". Depends on the weapon. The Smith & Wesson Model 10 Silk Spectre used to shoot Ozy has a muzzle velocity slower than the speed of sound IIRC.

So while not necessarily needing to break the sound barrier, he would still have to run well over 100mph in order to outrun a bullet. I'd really like to hear just how far above 100mph carthage believes Rorschach too be.

I doubt he genuinely believes Rorschach is that fast. One thing I will give Rorschach is that he was freakishly strong for his size, and handled flying headbutting a TV better than most would.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, because Spiderman was never depicted with enhanced senses, or shown to perceive and react to things at heightened speed, and X3 didn't have a legit speedster in Callisto, with fight scenes showing her blitz Storm... 😐

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, because Spiderman was never depicted with enhanced senses, or shown to perceive and react to things at heightened speed, and X3 didn't have a legit speedster in Callisto, with fight scenes showing her blitz Storm... 😐

More downplaying from the downplayer. That kick easily matches it, whether you want to admit it or not. The guy didn't travel the full distance because he flew right into a quinjet before he could. He was only reaching the peak of his flight there, so would have gone nearly double that distance before actually landing. And the fact that he did it proves he can, whether he decided to do it against everyone or just one person.

So saying "never, not once" now means "not done so regularly". And while referring to strikes of "10 feet or more", which we have proof of Bucky doing.

Spiderman never displayed super speed h2h combat exchanges, In fact, one could argue that Cap and Bucky appeared to be faster h2h. Yet, as we know this is undoubtedly false, as Spiderman is conclusively faster. Which again is the point, they don't always display speed as fast as the characters should be moving. This is a fact. It occurs all the time. Are you new to movies or something?

No that doesn't prove it actually. It falls short, pun intended. You have no way to know how far he was going to actually fly. Nice try though. It's all guesswork and speculation on your end, I have feats that need none. Period. Even if we suppose the kick was as hard, it would consider it a one off. Ozy did so with more regularity. Undisputable fact.

Again, he didn't fly 10 feet, what is so unclear about that? You speculating how far he flew, doesn't make what I said false. You're simply speculating. Again though, I was very clear, Ozy has done so regularly, Bucky maybe did it once, and never again. Game, set, match.

Originally posted by tkitna
Here's the whole problem. Nite Owl and Rorschach arent super human. Why do you feel they are? It has never been stated anywhere that they are. They are nothing more than decently skilled street levelers.

This is getting ludicrous now, I mean really. I already said why they are, did you simply put your hands over your eyes and not even read it? Seems so.

Look, even the best martial artist fighter in the world, would absolutely struggle taking on big strong prison dudes at the same time. He'd unquestionably struggle and very likely lose. At the very least he gets his lumps and hurt in the process of it all. These guys were absolutely tooling these guys and barely even had a single blow landed on them. That to me is above what a human could really do. At the very least it would be peak human to accomplish that with the utter ease they did.

So there is that, and as I already proved, their durability is clearly superhuman. The concussive force behind blows that would send you flying 10 or more feet would be substantial. A blow that can send you that far could easily kill you, or at the very least, you'd be KO'd. Even a peak human would be KO'd. They guys weren't after repeated such blows. Even getting your head slammed on a concrete/marble step. He was literally picked up over his head and slammed on his head. Again KO or death... he got up moments later. That is the definition of superhuman durability.

Now, actually try and read what I typed there and tell me how they are not superhuman?