Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No, he has displayed faster ARM MOVEMENT, which is the SPECIFIC statement I made. Now, either post a feat of Bucky showing faster arm movement, or concede Ozy has displayed faster arm movement. Simple.

For your question, no you already said how it is. You already admitted that since Ozy can move his arm faster, he can likely punch faster. You claim they would be little pats with no power. Though I disagree, that is at least a somewhat reasonable stance. Whether you think they would have power behind them or whether you consider them "real" punches isn't the point. We're talking speed here, not power. Power is a totally separate argument.

And this is why it's ridiculously irritating to debate with you. You say you only SPECIFICALLY meant faster ARM MOVEMENT. And then in the very next paragraph you say that that means he can also punch faster.

Let me be clear on what my stance is. Ozy can catch things faster with his arm. Bucky can strike faster, both punches and kicks. Why is that my stance? Because they are supported by actual screen feats. So I ask you again, what solid evidence do you have that Ozy can punch faster when he was never shown to do so?

If the punch is without decent power then it isn't a punch at all, merely a flicking of the arm forward. Which means you can't claim that Ozy can punch faster. The best you can do is claim he can wave his arms around faster.

I thought arm movement and punching speed is the same thing?

Originally posted by carver9
I thought arm movement and punching speed is the same thing?

Don't worry, we expect you to be wrong about everything.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And this is why it's ridiculously irritating to debate with you. You say you only SPECIFICALLY meant faster ARM MOVEMENT. And then in the very next paragraph you say that that means he can also punch faster.

Let me be clear on what my stance is. Ozy can catch things faster with his arm. Bucky can strike faster, both punches and kicks. Why is that my stance? Because they are supported by actual screen feats. So I ask you again, what solid evidence do you have that Ozy can punch faster when he was never shown to do so?

If the punch is without decent power then it isn't a punch at all, merely a flicking of the arm forward. Which means you can't claim that Ozy can punch faster. The best you can do is claim he can wave his arms around faster.

You can call flicks of the wrist or weak punches. I don't care, they are still punches. Just like jabs are punches. You could paw with your jab, with no power behind it really, but use it more as a range finder. Okay, it doesn't have any power, it's still a punch. Power doesn't determine whether it's a classified as a punch or not, the physical act of moving your hard and fist to strike your foe constitutes a punch, not the power behind it. Do you understand the difference?

Originally posted by carver9
I thought arm movement and punching speed is the same thing?

That's the thing. The vast majority of the speed of a punch comes from arm movement and arm muscles. that is the single biggest area where speed comes from. Power is a totally separate issue. Think about it, put your arm at your side, now raise it to your chest. Then stand in the boxing position, with your hands high ready to block or punch. Now extend your arm out to punch. These clowns are trying to say one is so vastly different than the other, that just because he moved his arm fast in one situation, doesnt' mean he can in another. It's a retarded line of logic.

It's like claiming beast can't lift a scooter, because he hasn't been shown lifting one, but has lifted car. Ummm no, he can lift a damn scooter. Same thing here, if he can move his arm that fast to catch a bullet, he can move his arm to punch. You can argue it might not have good power behind it, but you shouldn't argue the speed of it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That's the thing. The vast majority of the speed of a punch comes from arm movement and arm muscles. that is the single biggest area where speed comes from. Power is a totally separate issue. Think about it, put your arm at your side, now raise it to your chest. Then stand in the boxing position, with your hands high ready to block or punch. Now extend your arm out to punch. These clowns are trying to say one is so vastly different than the other, that just because he moved his arm fast in one situation, doesnt' mean he can in another. It's a retarded line of logic.

It's like claiming beast can't lift a scooter, because he hasn't been shown lifting one, but has lifted car. Ummm no, he can lift a damn scooter. Same thing here, if he can move his arm that fast to catch a bullet, he can move his arm to punch. You can argue it might not have good power behind it, but you shouldn't argue the speed of it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That's the thing. The vast majority of the speed of a punch comes from arm movement and arm muscles. that is the single biggest area where speed comes from. Power is a totally separate issue. Think about it, put your arm at your side, now raise it to your chest. Then stand in the boxing position, with your hands high ready to block or punch. Now extend your arm out to punch. These clowns are trying to say one is so vastly different than the other, that just because he moved his arm fast in one situation, doesnt' mean he can in another. It's a retarded line of logic.

It's like claiming beast can't lift a scooter, because he hasn't been shown lifting one, but has lifted car. Ummm no, he can lift a damn scooter. Same thing here, if he can move his arm that fast to catch a bullet, he can move his arm to punch. You can argue it might not have good power behind it, but you shouldn't argue the speed of it.

No it doesn't. Stop trying to educate people on something you clearly know nothing about. When a boxer works a heavy bag continuously, the following day it will be his leg, back and core muscles that will be sore. Not his arm muscles. Why? Because it's not his arm muscles that power the punch. They're needed, of course, to enable the arm to move but the force behind the punch is not from the arm muscles. And it's this force that propels it's speed.

So no, punching speed is not dictated by arm muscles.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

It's like claiming beast can't lift a scooter, because he hasn't been shown lifting one, but has lifted car. Ummm no, he can lift a damn scooter. Same thing here, if he can move his arm that fast to catch a bullet, he can move his arm to punch. You can argue it might not have good power behind it, but you shouldn't argue the speed of it.

No, it's like claiming that a sprinter can kick fast. It's false. Because simply moving your legs fast is not a valid reason to conclude that person can also kick fast.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No it doesn't. Stop trying to educate people on something you clearly know nothing about. When a boxer works a heavy bag continuously, the following day it will be his leg, back and core muscles that will be sore. Not his arm muscles. Why? Because it's not his arm muscles that power the punch. They're needed, of course, to enable the arm to move but the force behind the punch is not from the arm muscles. And it's this force that propels it's speed.

So no, punching speed is not dictated by arm muscles.

You idiot, we're talking about power behind a punch, we're talking SPEED. Are you dumb or something? I'm serious here. You keep mentioning power. Jesus H. Christ. I mean I'm honestly perplexed you can be this dumb. You've never hit a heavy bag in your life, nor do you even know how to properly hit one. Please stop talking to me like you know more anything boxing related than me.

As I stated, pawing with the jab as a range finder is still considered a punch. Like when you flick it out there trying to set up another punch coming right after or to throw of your foes timing. It ahs zero power behind it, but it's considered a punch. Power doesn't determine a punch. The punching motion determines whether it's a punch or not. Not if it meets some idiotic froth power level or something. Jesus.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It's weird such basic concepts of a fight need to be explained. What it shows is, Ozy being significantly faster in arm movement than Bucky. He movement there would be similar to blocking a punch, only his arm would have to travel even less of a distance than the bullet catch feat. His arms would already be in a fighting stance. So if we know his reactions are vastly faster than Bucky, and he can move his arm faster than Bucky. We also know he's an expert MA, and very adept at block. So the only logical argument would then have to be, well he may be able to move his arm into position to block his punches, but he can't block that arm. Well... I've proven that wrong as well.

People below Ozy have been able to deal with the arm. BW for one has, IM out of his suit parried a blow from the arm. I showed BP hits sending WS flying. Yet Hawkeye, a human, was able to block blows from BP and stay in the pocket. Sure he would've lost eventually, but he showed that skill can allow you to block punches from somebody out of your physical weight class. Ozy is above them. So if they can block it, he can block it, and easier.

So you tell me, who's going to be landing more punches here?

I'm not reading all that shit. Having fast hands doesn't mean you automatically win fights dingus. Go find a boxer with fast hands, and see how well he can defend a take down from a power wrestler.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You idiot, we're talking about power behind a punch, we're talking SPEED. Are you dumb or something? I'm serious here. You keep mentioning power. Jesus H. Christ. I mean I'm honestly perplexed you can be this dumb. You've never hit a heavy bag in your life, nor do you even know how to properly hit one. Please stop talking to me like you know more anything boxing related than me.

As I stated, pawing with the jab as a range finder is still considered a punch. Like when you flick it out there trying to set up another punch coming right after or to throw of your foes timing. It ahs zero power behind it, but it's considered a punch. Power doesn't determine a punch. The punching motion determines whether it's a punch or not. Not if it meets some idiotic froth power level or something. Jesus.

Yes we are not talking about power. We are talking about speed OF A PUNCH. Not just speed of moving your arm. And there's a big difference because the mechanics of a punch is very different from just moving your arm. I don't know how much simpler I can make this. A juggler with fast hands doesn't mean he's a fast puncher. A baseball pitcher who has fast hands doesn't mean he can punch fast. A runner who has fast legs does not make a fast kicker. A PUNCH UTILIZES DIFFERENT MECHANICS THAN SIMPLY CATCHING SOMETHING.

Even a jab has more going for it than simply moving your arm.

Does anyone else realize that KT has basically admitted that Ozy's hand movements will have zero chance of injuring or even slowing WS down? after all he's stated that Ozy's hand movements will have no power behind them.

Yea he just admitted Ozy cant even hurt WS, but he's still arguing Ozy beats him😂

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes we are not talking about power. We are talking about speed OF A PUNCH. Not just speed of moving your arm. And there's a big difference because the mechanics of a punch is very different from just moving your arm. I don't know how much simpler I can make this. A juggler with fast hands doesn't mean he's a fast puncher. A baseball pitcher who has fast hands doesn't mean he can punch fast. A runner who has fast legs does not make a fast kicker. A PUNCH UTILIZES DIFFERENT MECHANICS THAN SIMPLY CATCHING SOMETHING.

Even a jab has more going for it than simply moving your arm.

So tell me. When you paw with your jab as a range finder. Do tell me, what else is going on there than moving your arm? I'm curious, you're talking like you're an expert, but you honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about. Literally. So tell, what difference in arm movement speed would there be for:

1. Ozy moving his arm from his side, up to his chest

compared to

2. Ozy extending his arm out, while being in a boxing stance.

you're claiming the speed to move your arm is very different. Cool, explain the difference to me that relate to SPEED between those two movements

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I'm not reading all that shit. Having fast hands doesn't mean you automatically win fights dingus. Go find a boxer with fast hands, and see how well he can defend a take down from a power wrestler.

By this post all you've shown is you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

So boxers aren't moving their arm when punching? I can't believe what im reading 😆

I believe the debate is over as KT has just admitted that Ozy can't even hurt WS.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Yea he just admitted Ozy cant even hurt WS, but he's still arguing Ozy beats him😂

I said no such thing. That is in direct response to clownshoes no. 3 saying he can't punch faster. He unquestionably can punch faster. The only issue would be the power behind it. However, if you were able to read and comprehend (which you can't being slow and all), you'd realize that over and over I said I don't agree there'd be no power behind it. I've said that over and over. Froth was saying there'd be no power behind it. I say cool, you can believe that, but that still means his punch is faster. How much power is behind it is irrelevant to the speed we're discussing. I say this over and over, but you're such a moron, you can't even comprehend basic words. Should I quote myself where I saw multiple times I don't agree there'd be no power behind it, but that still doesn't change the fact that the punch is faster. Shall I quote myself, or do you concede I said no such thing?

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
So boxers aren't moving their arm when punching? I can't believe what im reading 😆

The levels of stupidity being shown in this thread are astronomical. A punch isn't arm movement Omega... you didn't know? If you can raise your arm really fast to block a punch or catch something, you can't throw a fast punch. Didn't you know, totally different thing going on there... one is arm movement... the other is... shoulder, torso, legs and back movement. No arm movement in a punch. I mean God no. Who moves there arm when they punch? Jesus, it's like I'm talking to a bunch of 3 year olds. Well T.I. is actually the youngest of them.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I believe the debate is over as KT has just admitted that Ozy can't even hurt WS.

👆