Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Started by KuRuPT Thanosi150 pages

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I get that there are different ways to depict speed. I'm just not convinced that scene was portraying Ozy moving faster than bullet speed, just like WS wasn't when he blocked multiple shots with his hand.

Are they both really fast? Sure. Do they both have amazing timing and coordination? Yeah of course.

But do either of them move at invisible bullet speed? I doubt it.

Well for WS, we know for a fact he doesn't have that kind of speed, because he didn't display it. Ozy did. They aren't comparable at all.

WS had his arm RAISED prior to the shots being fired. That is so far removed from raising your arm AFTER a bullet was fired. How can you think those are comparable Thor?

Seeing as WS has several feats that show him punching faster than Ozy, how can you(kt) believe that Ozy punches faster?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well for WS, we know for a fact he doesn't have that kind of speed, because he didn't display it. Ozy did. They aren't comparable at all.

WS had his arm RAISED prior to the shots being fired. That is so far removed from raising your arm AFTER a bullet was fired. How can you think those are comparable Thor?

Very different preach to these clowns bro

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well for WS, we know for a fact he doesn't have that kind of speed, because he didn't display it. Ozy did. They aren't comparable at all.

WS had his arm RAISED prior to the shots being fired. That is so far removed from raising your arm AFTER a bullet was fired. How can you think those are comparable Thor?

Shut up you idiot.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not be up for the challenge LMAO. Dude, I would love nothing better. Please, if you ever vacay out here, not hostility here either or threats, but see if I take you up on that challenge lol.

Second, I never once said it would be at the exact same speed. What I've said OVER and OVER again is this:

Ozy has moved his arm exponentially faster than Bucky via feats

I've said, and used words like close to, similar, slightly slower. I've said all these things because he doesn't need to do it as fast to be faster than Bucky. Think of it this way. If Ozy can move his arm at level 20 lets say. Bucky has been shown moving his arm at level 8 let's say. I've made this point over and over. Ozy doesn't need to punch at the same level 20 speed he did in that feat. He could move his arm slower than that to gain some power lets say and punch at level 15 or 14 or 10. It would still be faster than Bucky. I've said this over and over. Are you claiming I never said that?

That is why I was continually saying, he doesn't need to punch at that speed to be faster than Bucky. We THEN had a discussion because you said he couldn't punch faster than Bucky. I then noted, he can move his arm vastly faster than bucky. You said, well he could move his arm faster in a punching motion, but that doesn't make it a punch. I said, it unquestionably does. Power behind a punch doesn't determine whether it's a punch or not. Ozy could fling his arm at you really fast with his hand in a fist. You can say it wouldn't be powerful, but it's still a punch, a punch that would be delivered faster than Bucky. Are you honestly claiming I never said any of this?

It boils down to this: If Ozy can punch as fast as you claim, why then does he continuously punch slower than Bucky?

Originally posted by FrothByte
It boils down to this: If Ozy can punch as fast as you claim, why then does he continuously punch slower than Bucky?

No it boils down to how easily can ozy see incoming strikes because if he can catch a bull after it has left the chamber his reflexes are off the charts. WS would practically be moving in slow motion

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
No it boils down to how easily can ozy see incoming strikes because if he can catch a bull after it has left the chamber his reflexes are off the charts. WS would practically be moving in slow motion

Ozy caught ONE bullet and got knock down. WS will be throwing a lot more than just 1 strike. We have no proof that

1. Ozy can move at that speed reacting to multiple hits
2. Can recover after blocking someone as strong as WS
3. Can react and block something as fast as WS's fists that will not be traveling at straight trajectories like a bullet does.

There's enough evidence to show that Ozy can easily block WS's first hit. Anyone arguing otherwise is silly. But there's no proof he can block the rest of the strikes that are coming.

OP: Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by carthage
Fight takes place in the Roman Colosseum

Neither opponent has a gun here, this bullet catching crap is buffoonery.

WS wins with some difficulty.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ozy caught ONE bullet and got knock down. WS will be throwing a lot more than just 1 strike. We have no proof that

1. Ozy can move at that speed reacting to multiple hits
2. Can recover after blocking someone as strong as WS
3. Can react and block something as fast as WS's fists that will not be traveling at straight trajectories like a bullet does.

There's enough evidence to show that Ozy can easily block WS's first hit. Anyone arguing otherwise is silly. But there's no proof he can block the rest of the strikes that are coming.

Catching ONE bullet moving at speeds ws couldn't hope to accomplish with his fists... whether that be a single punch or a flurry of punches of kicks

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
No it boils down to how easily can ozy see incoming strikes because if he can catch a bull after it has left the chamber his reflexes are off the charts. WS would practically be moving in slow motion

😂

Your a idiot, he isn't a speeder, WS fought someone 2-3 times stronger then Ozy and just if fast if not faster.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Catching ONE bullet moving at speeds ws couldn't hope to accomplish with his fists... whether that be a single punch or a flurry of punches of kicks

No guns or bullets in OP, quit moving goal posts.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
😂

Your a idiot, he isn't a speeder, WS fought someone 2-3 times stronger then Ozy and just if fast if not faster.


Who did WS fight who caught a bullet?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No guns or bullets in OP, quit moving goal posts.

Reflexes dumbnuts

Re: Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Are you retarded?

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Catching ONE bullet moving at speeds ws couldn't hope to accomplish with his fists... whether that be a single punch or a flurry of punches of kicks

Bullets are not in OP. Read the OP.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well for WS, we know for a fact he doesn't have that kind of speed, because he didn't display it. Ozy did. They aren't comparable at all.

WS had his arm RAISED prior to the shots being fired. That is so far removed from raising your arm AFTER a bullet was fired. How can you think those are comparable Thor?

Because it wasn't clear evidence like in Blade where we see him moving his head faster than the bullet is moving when Blade shoots at Frost unexpectedly.

Even in that scenario I don't think Frost was a proper speedster, but just capable of short blitzes, as displayed in his end fight with Blade. And as displayed in all other fights Blade is in where he moves fast, but not THAT fast.

So what Ozy did, where we don't see him specifically moving faster than a bullet, or see him do any other kind of super fast movement on bullet speed level, is just no where near enough evidence to call him an actual speedster.

He's faster than regular humans with impeccable coordination, timing and reflexes. But there's no evidence he's an actual speedster with speed well beyond WS.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because it wasn't clear evidence like in Blade where we see him moving his head faster than the bullet is moving when Blade shoots at Frost unexpectedly.

Even in that scenario I don't think Frost was a proper speedster, but just capable of short blitzes, as displayed in his end fight with Blade. And as displayed in all other fights Blade is in where he moves fast, but not THAT fast.

So what Ozy did, where we don't see him specifically moving faster than a bullet, or see him do any other kind of super fast movement on bullet speed level, is just no where near enough evidence to call him an actual speedster.

He's faster than regular humans with impeccable coordination, timing and reflexes. But there's no evidence he's an actual speedster with speed well beyond WS.

I don't know what you mean here. What do you mean you don't know if he's a speedster? What does that even mean in this context. It's just a relative term. Do you mean a speedster like Flash or Superman? Obviously not. Does he have superhuman attributes that allow him to do stuff no human could do, and faster than any human could do. Thus he's a speedster in that respect. So I don't know what you mean by speedster.

Second, he has other displays of speed that backed that up that I've referenced before.

1. The assassination scene, he was avoiding direct gunfire from an assassin. Other people couldn't react, and they weren't even the target. He was, and was avoiding fire. Shit in the comic I believe he throw a ash tray to block one of the bullets

2. Scene with the comedian. Watch the clip. Comedian is a decorate military badass. He's been in numerous combat situations. Yet, he had a 15-20 feet separating him and Ozy. Yet, with no noise or seemingly any movement, he was right next to Comedian to disarm him. To move so fast a trained killer like Comedian could track him would take incredible speed. The look on Comedians face was like HOLY SHIT

3. In that same scene, he casually got a knife throw at close range. His arms were again at his side. Comedian throws it. Ozy Casually raises his arm to catch the knife

4. The fight with RO and N.O. Look at the clip, and I believe we've discussed this before. Notice when Ozy turns around really fast. You hear a noise indicative of speed. No human can move there torso like that and create any kind of fast movement like that. Yet the director in this movies used that sound all the time when Ozy was avoiding punches or kick. They were clearly used to indicate speed. The same noise was made when Ozy just quickly turned around and then was able to throw a chair before he got shoot his laser. Those sounds were just thrown in to thrown in any random sound. It was there for a reason.

5. Even the fight itself. We've seen N.O. casually deal with big strong tough guys. Easily outspeeding them and even sending them flying back against the jail bars or to the ground. Big strong dudes were getting clowned and owned. You never seen any normal guy just wading through huge strong dudes like it was nothing. That would never happen in real life. It was clearly shown to demonstrate their skill, speed and power. Yet Ozy, against those same super skilled dudes, was just casually blocking their punches. Even turning his back while they both attacked him. Not one punch landed. Again, clearly demonstrating his fast reflexes and timing. That was Ozy looking like he was taking a stroll in the park while doing that. That would take incredible speed to pull off.

Point is, that was the only indication of him being extremely fast, with fast reflexes, it was just his best showing.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Catching ONE bullet moving at speeds ws couldn't hope to accomplish with his fists... whether that be a single punch or a flurry of punches of kicks

So in your opinion, Ozy is so fast that he could simply dodge each and every one of WS's strikes?

Originally posted by FrothByte
So in your opinion, Ozy is so fast that he could simply dodge each and every one of WS's strikes?

You do realize that the speed and reflexes needed to react to a bullet after it was fired, would easily mean WS could throw 20 punches that wouldn't come close to that reaction time. That is minimizing the feat even. That said, fights sometimes are portrayed differently, and sometimes they don't follow said scale all the way up. So we really can't say. What I can say for certain is, the vast majority of WS punches would either be avoided or blocked. He's demonstrated a level of reaction that should mean he doesn't really get hit. Again though, who's to say how they would actually choreograph the fight in such a way to be consistent with the speed of movement Ozy displayed. Maybe the would, maybe the wouldn't. But if you took that reaction and speed feat to scale, WS punches would be scene slow motion really. if they scaled it to the bullet catch feat.

Automatic machine guns > Subsonic .38 special