Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You do realize that the speed and reflexes needed to react to a bullet after it was fired, would easily mean WS could throw 20 punches that wouldn't come close to that reaction time. That is minimizing the feat even. That said, fights sometimes are portrayed differently, and sometimes they don't follow said scale all the way up. So we really can't say. What I can say for certain is, the vast majority of WS punches would either be avoided or blocked. He's demonstrated a level of reaction that should mean he doesn't really get hit. Again though, who's to say how they would actually choreograph the fight in such a way to be consistent with the speed of movement Ozy displayed. Maybe the would, maybe the wouldn't. But if you took that reaction and speed feat to scale, WS punches would be scene slow motion really. if they scaled it to the bullet catch feat.

You're being inconsistent. If you insist that Ozy has bullet-time speed and reflexes, then he should be easily able to avoid any strikes WS throws at him. So is a bullet timer or not?

Originally posted by FrothByte
It boils down to this: If Ozy can punch as fast as you claim, why then does he continuously punch slower than Bucky?

I've asked you. Post the video where you think WS punches the fastest. Then look at the RO and N.O. fight. Now tell me, how much faster is he punching. I love how you keep claiming he's punching faster. Prove it. How much faster is he actually punching?

Further, you keep making this false distinction like Ozy NEEDED to punch faster. He didn't. He wasn't hit one time. He was landing his blows. Why would he need to move faster? That makes zero logical sense. Then as I've already proved, clearly the director wasn't concerned about doing speed to scale for the audience. If he did, we wouldn't have saw his arm move to catch it. It would've been nothing but a blur. Only we did see it, clearly demonstrating the director wasn't concerned about scaling speed for the audience.

So tell me, if the director clearly isn't concerned about making it appear like how it would in real life, what makes you think he was showing Ozy fighting a the speed he was actually fighting at?

Lastly, you claim Bucky can punch faster than Ozy. If he's faster than ozy why does he get hit all the time? If you claim somebody is faster than somebody else... You'd think they'd never be hit or countered. Ohhh wait THAT'S OZY who wasn't hit or countered. WS on the other hand has been hit and countered numerous times, but mere skilled human no less. So if he's so much faster arm movement wise, why is he hit, while Ozy never is?

Says arrogant gender less buffoon, yes what you say really matter say this point.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You're being inconsistent. If you insist that Ozy has bullet-time speed and reflexes, then he should be easily able to avoid any strikes WS throws at him. So is a bullet timer or not?

There's no inconsistency what so ever. I stated VERY CLEARLY, that if they were consistent in his fight scenes to the scale of the bullet catch feat... he'd unquestionably be in slow motion to Ozy perception wise. There would be absolutely no way around that fact. Which is what I've said this ENTIRE TIME. WS won't be landing much of anything that isn't blocked or avoided. That is DIRECTLY because of his superior speed, reflexes, perception and skill. I've said this over and over. All I said here was, it would be up to the director to portray Ozy that same way in his fights. Who knows if he/she would or wouldn't, but that isn't my issue. What I've said, and always said is, if they scaled the speed required for that feat and properly translated that to a h2h fight... Yeah, he's not getting hit really. Especially when you consider that part of a good defense is a good offense. Ozy will clearly be able to move WS with his blows when they land. Being more skilled and better at defense and countering.. means he won't even have to block as much or avoid as much.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I don't know what you mean here. What do you mean you don't know if he's a speedster? What does that even mean in this context. It's just a relative term. Do you mean a speedster like Flash or Superman? Obviously not. Does he have superhuman attributes that allow him to do stuff no human could do, and faster than any human could do. Thus he's a speedster in that respect. So I don't know what you mean by speedster.

Second, he has other displays of speed that backed that up that I've referenced before

A speedster doesn't have to be as fast as Flash or Superman. Heck classic Quicksilver in the comics used to run under the speed of sound.

So if someone can move faster than a bullet for the duration of a fight, then yeah I'd classify that as a speedster.

So I'm asking if you believe Ozy is a speedster "faster than a speeding bullet" which was the initial description given for Superman's speed.

Will address your other examples later.

WS tagged Captain America who Tagged Quicksilver, a speedster.

KT's shit just got pushed in.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
There's no inconsistency what so ever. I stated VERY CLEARLY, that if they were consistent in his fight scenes to the scale of the bullet catch feat... he'd unquestionably be in slow motion to Ozy perception wise. There would be absolutely no way around that fact. Which is what I've said this ENTIRE TIME. WS won't be landing much of anything that isn't blocked or avoided. That is DIRECTLY because of his superior speed, reflexes, perception and skill. I've said this over and over. All I said here was, it would be up to the director to portray Ozy that same way in his fights. Who knows if he/she would or wouldn't, but that isn't my issue. What I've said, and always said is, if they scaled the speed required for that feat and properly translated that to a h2h fight... Yeah, he's not getting hit really. Especially when you consider that part of a good defense is a good offense. Ozy will clearly be able to move WS with his blows when they land. Being more skilled and better at defense and countering.. means he won't even have to block as much or avoid as much.

Here is Ozy's fight against NO and Rosch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3CYN7_Aa7E

And if you watch that fight, you'll see that Ozy doesn't move, punch or kick quite as fast as Cap or Bucky in this fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXPOl6EjbWg

WS tagged Captain America who Tagged Quicksilver, a speedster.

/thread

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
WS tagged Captain America who Tagged Quicksilver, a speedster.

/thread

nah, don't say that .. the thread needs to reach 100+ pages lmao

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
WS tagged Captain America who Tagged Quicksilver, a speedster.

KT's shit just got pushed in.

When did cap tag him? You mean when he was getting up from the mjolnir incident and cap suprised him with a shield to the face?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Here is Ozy's fight against NO and Rosch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3CYN7_Aa7E

And if you watch that fight, you'll see that Ozy doesn't move, punch or kick quite as fast as Cap or Bucky in this fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXPOl6EjbWg

See that's the problem Froth, you know it and I know it. You "think" it appears quite as fast. As I've already shown, how fast it appears, doesn't mean that is how fast it's actually is. Do I need to recite the examples of these in movies? You know them, I just said them a bit ago, suffice to say, what appears to you (the viewing audience) isn't always indicative of the actual speed as we'd perceive it. That's just how it is. So, that's the first thing.

Second, think about it, do you honestly believe it really looks that faster? It's kind of deceiving in some sequences, because Cap is blocking a lot of attacks from WS and thus it looks quick and fast. I like this scene and others, and I think they do both justice. Problem is some of those sequences are deceiving when comparing them to Ozy. Why? Well, Ozy blocks and quickly counters, sequence over. Maybe blocks two times, and then boom. Where was the need to react faster? In each sequence he blocks them perfectly and causes the blow to come to a dead stop. No contact. What did you want him to move super fast into position and wait for the blow? It's a fight scene Froth. These are real actors doing these things. They aren't pressing fast forward slightly to increase the visual speed. They are acting out the damn scene as it was back then. Think about that for a second.

If Ozy can move his arm that fast to catch the bullet, should mean he can punch really fast, and certainly block really really fast. Whether the fight choreography of normal humans showed that, you know, I know, how fast Ozy can move. It's that smple for me. Even in the scenes in question, it simply looks a little faster, but much of that is because of the fight sequences. Think about watching other movies. When a guy is only having to punch fast, and the other guy block really fast, it looks pretty cool. Certainly very fast. That is indicative of those sequences. That is in stark contrast to Ozy, who blocks a few times and then tosses them aside. Just won't naturally look as fast.

In the end, it comes down to Ozy has proven feats showing he's extremely fast. Especially in arm movement. That's the simple reality here. He'll be able to see WS punches coming better than WS is going to see Ozy's. Plus he's clearly better and blocking punches than WS, so anything that does get through, blocked. The only chance WS has in my mind, is if Ozy can't put him down, and eventually he wears him down. That just doesn't seem plausible to me. Make no mistake though, if he can put him down with his blows, it's game over. He's simply too fast and adept at blocking to have much of anything land. You know it man, but I'm sure you'll talk about how it looks a little faster to you.. whatever that means.

Can someone break this guys miserable hands?

WS should decent arm speed being able to use his metal arm to block bullets fired at him.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
See that's the problem Froth, you know it and I know it. You "think" it appears quite as fast. As I've already shown, how fast it appears, doesn't mean that is how fast it's actually is. Do I need to recite the examples of these in movies? You know them, I just said them a bit ago, suffice to say, what appears to you (the viewing audience) isn't always indicative of the actual speed as we'd perceive it. That's just how it is. So, that's the first thing.

Second, think about it, do you honestly believe it really looks that faster? It's kind of deceiving in some sequences, because Cap is blocking a lot of attacks from WS and thus it looks quick and fast. I like this scene and others, and I think they do both justice. Problem is some of those sequences are deceiving when comparing them to Ozy. Why? Well, Ozy blocks and quickly counters, sequence over. Maybe blocks two times, and then boom. Where was the need to react faster? In each sequence he blocks them perfectly and causes the blow to come to a dead stop. No contact. What did you want him to move super fast into position and wait for the blow? It's a fight scene Froth. These are real actors doing these things. They aren't pressing fast forward slightly to increase the visual speed. They are acting out the damn scene as it was back then. Think about that for a second.

If Ozy can move his arm that fast to catch the bullet, should mean he can punch really fast, and certainly block really really fast. Whether the fight choreography of normal humans showed that, you know, I know, how fast Ozy can move. It's that smple for me. Even in the scenes in question, it simply looks a little faster, but much of that is because of the fight sequences. Think about watching other movies. When a guy is only having to punch fast, and the other guy block really fast, it looks pretty cool. Certainly very fast. That is indicative of those sequences. That is in stark contrast to Ozy, who blocks a few times and then tosses them aside. Just won't naturally look as fast.

In the end, it comes down to Ozy has proven feats showing he's extremely fast. Especially in arm movement. That's the simple reality here. He'll be able to see WS punches coming better than WS is going to see Ozy's. Plus he's clearly better and blocking punches than WS, so anything that does get through, blocked. The only chance WS has in my mind, is if Ozy can't put him down, and eventually he wears him down. That just doesn't seem plausible to me. Make no mistake though, if he can put him down with his blows, it's game over. He's simply too fast and adept at blocking to have much of anything land. You know it man, but I'm sure you'll talk about how it looks a little faster to you.. whatever that means.

So basically what you're saying is that we should not believe what we see (Bucky fights faster than Ozy) but instead trust your numerous jumps in logic.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So basically what you're saying is that we should not believe what we see (Bucky fights faster than Ozy) but instead trust your numerous jumps in logic.

Kt is an idiot.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Can someone break this guys miserable hands?

His long paragraphs have nothing of value just piles of shit.

He ran off after he realized he was wrong and then went on a rant about how great he thinks he is in real life.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He ran off after he realized he was wrong and then went on a rant about how great he thinks he is in real life.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So basically what you're saying is that we should not believe what we see (Bucky fights faster than Ozy) but instead trust your numerous jumps in logic.

Right, you going by what "appears" fast is sound logic? Please Froth, that is a worse line of deductive reasoning. Tell me, when Ozy strikes, you say it's not quite as fast... how can you tell which is faster? How much faster? This is the exact problem with "how it looks" and it doesn't look like much of anything. Let me ask you this, whether you believe it to be true or not, do you understand like logical progression I've made? You're free to disagree, but you do understand why I feel as I do?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He ran off after he realized he was wrong and then went on a rant about how great he thinks he is in real life.

You aren't done running your mouth boy? I thought my last destruction of you where I made you curl up into the fetal position was enough. I guess not. They'll just get worse and worse kid, and by what you've seen, you don't want it to get worse. You thought the last post was mean, hardly lol. All you can do is make up stuff about me, it's pitiful, while I can use real life things to make you look like a buffoon. Let's see if he wises up or not.