Sith Triumvirate vs Tyranus Vader and Maul

Nihilus didn't blast a planet when he attacked Traya or the Exile, he only attacked them and not anyone else with a single, focused attack.

Impossible. Life draining powers are fueled by the energies of the consumed; in a sense, Nihilus can kill planets because planets possess a planet-sized supply of life. The idea that Nihilus would even attempt to use enough power to consume a planet so that he could gain the life force of one Jedi is absurd; he'd be putting far more in than he was taking out.

As for your second point; it's irrelevant. Ultimately, if twenty Jedi were actually combined into a single being, it wouldn't matter in the slightest how focused Valkorion's powers may or may not be; he stands no chance. Take a good look at Dorsk 81 at the time of his death; he essentially became the "collective" power of several Jedi and threw a fleet out of orbit, his body destroying itself under the strain. Or maybe it would be more down your alley to refer to Bane and the Brotherhood's similar ritual in PoD, which allowed Bane to effortlessly destroy an massive forest with lightning? You're overestimating the difference in power between relative Force users; even Anakin at his full potential, a being which would be greater than the Father, would only have been twice as powerful as Sidious. Killing a hundred Jedi and killing a being who has the collective power of a hundred Jedi aren't even close to being the same thing.

And we've seen Nihilus and Traya use it easily in combat situations.

Curiously, every time was against opponents that weren't even powerful enough to get near them.

In the only possible exception to this rule, Nihilus happened to have brought Sion with him. Odd.

You must have just forgotten or not seen the hidden panel where all the Force sensitive not only tried to fight back, but also combined their powers into one being. It's okay though, it's pretty easy to miss.

Aw shit.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Impossible. Life draining powers are fueled by the energies of the consumed; in a sense, Nihilus can kill planets because planets possess a planet-sized supply of life. The idea that Nihilus would even attempt to use enough power to consume a planet so that he could gain the life force of one Jedi is absurd; he'd be putting far more in than he was taking out.

Wrong. In DoE Bane needed to maintain his death field with power and said that it would have exhausted him quickly. God, Bane. Don't you just hate him? And it's stupid to think that an attacks effectiveness is reliant on its victim. Nihilus needed to build up to consuming planets as he grew in power and ability and thus the scope of his technique grew. He couldn't just eat a planet "because planets possess a planet-sized supply of life." 🙄 The legions of Sith Assassins who know the technique and can't eat planets is proof of that.

(the correct answer is that the attack isn't really reliant on power, which is why your theory of "moar powa = defense" is wrong don't tell anyone shhh)

Originally posted by NewGuy01
As for your second point; it's irrelevant.

AKA I'm right but you're being petulant.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Ultimately, if twenty Jedi were actually combined into a single being, it wouldn't matter in the slightest how focused Valkorion's powers may or may not be; he stands no chance. Take a good look at Dorsk 81 at the time of his death; he essentially became the "collective" power of several Jedi and threw a fleet out of orbit, his body destroying itself under the strain. Or maybe it would be more down your alley to refer to Bane and the Brotherhood's similar ritual in PoD, which allowed Bane to effortlessly destroy an massive forest with lightning? You're overestimating the difference in power between relative Force users; even Anakin at his full potential, a being which would be greater than the Father, would only have been twice as powerful as Sidious. Killing a hundred Jedi and killing a being who has the collective power of a hundred Jedi aren't even close to being the same thing.

It was just an example. Yours, actually. 😐

Fact is, Nihilus killed 100 Jedi at once. They're the ones who stood no chance. So either you an accept that they had no defense so power is irrelevant or you can accept that Nihilus >>> 100 Jedi.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Curiously, every time was against opponents that weren't even powerful enough to get near them.

In the only possible exception to this rule, Nihilus happened to have brought Sion with him. Odd.

They never got the chance, the technique is too fast. The Masters were clearly combat ready, Kreia just one-shot them instantly.

Instead of trying to be cute and vague, maybe you should actually take the time to type out an argument explaining exactly how you think it matters or how a powerful opponent would subvert the attack. This isn't TOR, its not a channeled or charged ability you can interrupt with a kick to the nuts. They use the attack at will and you die. So please, enlighten us.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You must have just forgotten or not seen the hidden panel where all the Force sensitive not only tried to fight back, but also combined their powers into one being. It's okay though, it's pretty easy to miss.

Unseen, Unheard does show the populace of Katarr reacting to the visible attack. Also Jedi have this thing called precognition that lets them react to and respond to attacks they wouldn't otherwise see coming.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wrong. In DoE Bane needed to maintain his death field with power and said that it would have exhausted him quickly.

Thank you for bringing up this example.

The effort of creating an aura of pure dark side energy would have quickly exhausted even Bane. However, as his enemies fell he was able to draw their essence into himself, feeding on their energies to revitalize his fading strength and reinforcing the field in preparation for the next wave of victims.

--Dynasty of Evil

And it's stupid to think that an attacks effectiveness is reliant on its victim.

That's exactly what makes drain a unique power.

Nihilus needed to build up to consuming planets as he grew in power and ability and thus the scope of his technique grew.

I don't see how this affects my point at all. The thing that made drain so dangerous to begin with is that anyone could use it to eventually become a danger to all life, at a cost. Nihilus wasn't really particularly special before he started eating things, for instance.

Fact is, Nihilus killed 100 Jedi at once. They're the ones who stood no chance. So either you an accept that they had no defense so power is irrelevant or you can accept that Nihilus >>> 100 Jedi.

I would have liked to see Nihilus try and confront those 100 Jedi head on, lel.

They never got the chance, the technique is too fast. The Masters were clearly combat ready, Kreia just one-shot them instantly.

Yeah, it was certainly an intense combat situation as they sat there for five minutes getting ragdolled and lectured.

Instead of trying to be cute and vague, maybe you should actually take the time to type out an argument explaining exactly how you think it matters or how a powerful opponent would subvert the attack.

It's not about subversion. It's about the attack being too weak to kill someone with greater force reserves than a weakling, especially considering two of them handled the goddamn Dark Reaper with their magic trick.

Unseen, Unheard does show the populace of Katarr reacting to the visible attack. Also Jedi have this thing called precognition that lets them react to and respond to attacks they wouldn't otherwise see coming.

Visible? It's kind of irrelevant either way, but do you really think that Nihilus spawns black clouds when he fights? That's the death of Katarr as told by a blind woman who only viewed the world through the Force. The naked eye would likely be unable to see it.

Either way, his point remains undiminished; the Jedi never had the chance to do anything to Nihilus as they were thousands of miles away from him. Nor did they merge and become a force god to take the death field on.

LeGenD, you didn't credit me for the Dark Reaper discovery, just kidding.

If you need any more of a reason why Nihilus-grade gigadrain is not the same as drain:

In the KOTOR 2 cut content despite Meetra being fully capable of voiding Nihilus' drain, she is incapable of blocking Sion's regular drain which one shots her, he very nearly kills Surik with it; so much so that not even Kreia and the rest of the party can sense her in the Force anymore. T3-M4 has to turn up and perform healing on Surik to wake her up again.

Meetra blocks Nihilus' drain because she is his polar opposite as a wound in the Force, but she cannot resist normal drain, nor can Nihilus' drain be resisted by anybody else but Surik.

Nihilus arguably solos.

So we are using non-canon (to the old EU) content as evidence now?

Welp, time to break out those Infinities comics again. And, interesting to note, Chewbacca is Big Foot.

Cut content doesn't even agree with her because if we're using game mechanics as canon, Nihilus uses drain the entire fight and it works.

Team two sweeps. Vader's too strong.

Originally posted by AncientPower
LeGenD, you didn't credit me for the Dark Reaper discovery, just kidding.

You have played this game?

Originally posted by AncientPower
If you need any more of a reason why Nihilus-grade gigadrain is not the same as drain:

In the KOTOR 2 cut content despite Meetra being fully capable of voiding Nihilus' drain, she is incapable of blocking Sion's regular drain which one shots her, he very nearly kills Surik with it; so much so that not even Kreia and the rest of the party can sense her in the Force anymore. T3-M4 has to turn up and perform healing on Surik to wake her up again.

Meetra blocks Nihilus' drain because she is his polar opposite as a wound in the Force, but she cannot resist normal drain, nor can Nihilus' drain be resisted by anybody else but Surik.

Nihilus arguably solos.

Darth Nihilus's Force Drain powers are not unique; they were pioneered by ancient Sith centuries ago. Nathema experiment is a noteworthy example.

However, point of contention is about options to counter Force Drain powers. Force-users have pioneered conventional and/or unconventional methods to counter Force Drain powers but their effectiveness vary.

1. Ulic Qel-Droma revealed a conventional technique to counter Force Drain powers but its effectiveness is limited.

2. Valkorion's (Sith Sorcery) experiments established a fact that [corporeal immortality] condition enables an individual to endure some Force Drain powers. Look no further than the example of Hands.

3. [Wound] condition is an effective barrier against some Force Drain powers as apparent from the example of Meetra Surik.

4. Revan demonstrated that it is possible to endure some Force Drain powers in the presence of others by counter-draining them.

5. Valkorion (himself) is a testament to the fact that [non-corporeal immortality] is the most effective method to endure/counter Force Drain powers.

However, it is unrealistic for any corporeal being to endure Katarr, Nathema and Ziost-like events.

---

Nonetheless, Force Drain powers are extremely difficult to counter/endure.

As far as this confrontation is concerned, Darth Vader and Count Dooku have knowledge of Qel-Droma's technique but it won't benefit them much in this contest. Darth Maul is a non-factor.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Team two sweeps. Vader's too strong.

Darth Nihilus is too strong and dangerous.

So much headcanon you could take out the moon.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Cut content doesn't even agree with her because if we're using game mechanics as canon, Nihilus uses drain the entire fight and it works.

She is drained in a cutscene on the droid planet by Sion, which IIRC also appears in the script. Nothing to do with game mechanics, like at all.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Wrong.

Darth Nihilus is too strong and dangerous.

Yeah, sure. That's nice, dear. Vader still dominates.

Kek rip Deronn

Lel@DC dying with the cancer the opposing opinion in this thread has.

Originally posted by AncientPower
She is drained in a cutscene on the droid planet by Sion, which IIRC also appears in the script. Nothing to do with game mechanics, like at all.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Lel@DC dying with the cancer the opposing opinion in this thread has.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Also, according to Bane's entry in the Book of Sith, Drain is incredibly difficult to apply in a combat situation. God, Bane. Don't you just hate him?

Because it is, Bane isn't a wound in the Force. And all Nihilus attacks have been instantaneous.

By that logic I'm not sure we can assume Ulic's technique against the Dark Reaper would be equally effective against Nihilus.

This is why I hate when people use Nihilus in a debate.

Can he drain?

Yes: He wins.
No: He loses.

Most interesting debate evur.