Secret wars 2 Thing vs WBH

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
WBH Stomps, heck even Thor would stomp if he went all outhe

Hulk punch him one time and he dies.

Not sure if you're joking, but in case you aren't, I agree that WB Hulk would obliterate even this version of the Thing when he decided to let go in the Dark Dimension. He was amping at will.

Originally posted by Stoic
This is what I am trying to tell you. Since the Hulk held back so much during the WW Hulk campaign, he kept himself on the level of characters within Hercules' weight class, or he would have caused senseless deaths. Now since the Hulk on panel was proven not to be a murderer this is exactly why he did that. During that very same campaign, when he went up against the X-Men it specifically stated that his hide had become tougher to cut by Wolverine, and that was due to his increased strength. It is later reinforced when he completely no sells Arm'Cheddon, Bi-Beast, and Wendigo's assault due to his increase in strength. All of his stats dramatically increased during HOTM.

The number of 133.5 hercs iirc was not even attributed to the lungs of WBH. But to a hulk not even in wb mode.

This is why it does not fall into a logical conclusion based on what Pak shown in comics.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
First off, Hulk got ko'ed by 133 hercs.

Second off, rao is playing smug when he's literally saying that an entire run who's sole purpose was to wank Hulk has Pak lying when he specifically went out of his way to make up a measurement system to wank Hulk. How does this work?

Third, he later did the same shit when he amped Wendigo and Bi Beast a thousand times and had normal Hulk defeat and kill them in a conflicting way sure, but the amp was established. Both characters Hulk really doesn't have wins over at normal power.

You could see the frustration in Pak's writing when he had shit like Cho saying "You mean he actually has to destroy a world for us to accept it?" Paraphrasing of course but the message is clear. Pak was going out of his way to try and one up everything Hulk did. He wasn't lying when he wrote the stupid shit he did. He was lying when he had to give Hulk a challenge and make people do good against him.

Not to mention Herc hitting him was in an event with much less freedom and context. Then Pak went ballistic. Also pis exists as well, and you're speaking about the definition of a character with fluctuating strength.

Don't know if Pak lied on purpose or not alll I am saying is that the numbers he thrown out there he just made that up his butt and does not hold in any logical conclusion when you see the premises is based on.

That WBH is stronger than other versions of Hulk? Maybe

That a lung of Hulk is 133.5 stronger than Hercules is laughable and easily proven false with an exercise on logical conclusions

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Don't know if Pak lied on purpose or not alll I am saying is that the numbers he thrown out there he just made that up his butt and does not hold in any logical conclusion when you see the premises is based on.

That WBH is stronger than other versions of Hulk? Maybe

That a lung of Hulk is 133.5 stronger than Hercules is laughable and easily proven false with an exercise on logical conclusions

Can you tell me one thing that is logical when it comes to the more ridiculous things portrayed in comics? The number was placed in a canon comic book. You may not accept it, but that really has nothing to do with the outcome of this thread. I don't accept PC Superman being hurt by a human bank robber only to turn around and sneeze away a solar system. I don't accept the Silver Surfer being hurt by a bunch of guys with carpentry hammer's while being strong enough to exist unaided in space. The Hulk survived being hit in the intestines by a being capable of hitting with the force of 133.5 Herc's. And One Big Mob, I never said that he no sold the hit to his intestines, just that he survived something that would have blown most characters to bits.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Don't know if Pak lied on purpose or not alll I am saying is that the numbers he thrown out there he just made that up his butt and does not hold in any logical conclusion when you see the premises is based on.

That WBH is stronger than other versions of Hulk? Maybe

That a lung of Hulk is 133.5 stronger than Hercules is laughable and easily proven false with an exercise on logical conclusions

Pak went out of his way in the comic to create that measurement system pretty much for the sole purpose of that feat. He stressed it numerous times in that story too.

He gave Hulk a really high feat. It's not rocket science. These things happen in comics.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Doesn't matter what contradicts what. You being a Superman fan should know of conflicting showings. You're talking about a character who ramps from 0 to 100 in seconds who was written by a shitty writer who is a massive fanboy of the character.

Pak went out of his way in the comic to create that measurement system pretty much for the sole purpose of that feat. He stressed it numerous times in that story too.

He gave Hulk a really high feat. It's not rocket science. These things happen in comics.

I understand contradictions happen in comics and when that haopens you use logical conclusions.

Which let us know that Superman being KOed by a gas station explosion and then surviving a planet's core explosion can only be explained by the involvement of Doomsday in the fight. So superman was Koed by the explosion of the gas station but due to the exhaustion caused by his fight with Doomsday.

A logical conclusion is exactly used for this purposes. You look at the premises and then come up with a conclusion.

If the premises are false the logical conclusion most likely is wrong.

In this case all that material is written by the same person which only means that he contradicted himself saying one thing and portraying another one.

This is why logical conclusions work and are great for comics. Even if sometimes the element of sci fi is involved.

Also getting kind of tired of this back and forth. I don't have the energy I used to.

So we might continue this tomorrow or just leave it where it is.

I am honestly physically tired 😛

Originally posted by Stoic
Can you tell me one thing that is logical when it comes to the more ridiculous things portrayed in comics? The number was placed in a canon comic book. You may not accept it, but that really has nothing to do with the outcome of this thread. I don't accept PC Superman being hurt by a human bank robber only to turn around and sneeze away a solar system. I don't accept the Silver Surfer being hurt by a bunch of guys with carpentry hammer's while being strong enough to exist unaided in space. The Hulk survived being hit in the intestines by a being capable of hitting with the force of 133.5 Herc's. And One Big Mob, I never said that he no sold the hit to his intestines, just that he survived something that would have blown most characters to bits.

This is actually better to my point

You don't accept SS being KOed by a hammer in the head because you base a logical conclusion that he can and has survived worse.

So you just toss it as a low showing and something that should not even be considered, well the same logical conclusion applies to Pak's wild measuring system.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
First off, Hulk got ko'ed by 133 hercs.

Second off, rao is playing smug when he's literally saying that an entire run who's sole purpose was to wank Hulk has Pak lying when he specifically went out of his way to make up a measurement system to wank Hulk. How does this work?

Third, he later did the same shit when he amped Wendigo and Bi Beast a thousand times and had normal Hulk defeat and kill them in a conflicting way sure, but the amp was established. Both characters Hulk really doesn't have wins over at normal power.

You could see the frustration in Pak's writing when he had shit like Cho saying "You mean he actually has to destroy a world for us to accept it?" Paraphrasing of course but the message is clear. Pak was going out of his way to try and one up everything Hulk did. He wasn't lying when he wrote the stupid shit he did. He was lying when he had to give Hulk a challenge and make people do good against him.

Not to mention Herc hitting him was in an event with much less freedom and context. Then Pak went ballistic. Also pis exists as well, and you're speaking about the definition of a character with fluctuating strength.

👆

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Don't know if Pak lied on purpose or not alll I am saying is that the numbers he thrown out there he just made that up his butt and does not hold in any logical conclusion when you see the premises is based on.

That WBH is stronger than other versions of Hulk? Maybe

That a lung of Hulk is 133.5 stronger than Hercules is laughable and easily proven false with an exercise on logical conclusions

Lol...Hercules admitted later on that one Herc equal his Maximum power.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Doesn't matter what contradicts what. You being a Superman fan should know of conflicting showings. You're talking about a character who ramps from 0 to 100 in seconds who was written by a shitty writer who is a massive fanboy of the character.

Pak went out of his way in the comic to create that measurement system pretty much for the sole purpose of that feat. He stressed it numerous times in that story too.

He gave Hulk a really high feat. It's not rocket science. These things happen in comics.

👆

Shadow Dragon blitzing Superman but later on gets blitzed and defeated by Shiva.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I understand contradictions happen in comics and when that haopens you use logical conclusions.

Which let us know that Superman being KOed by a gas station explosion and then surviving a planet's core explosion can only be explained by the involvement of Doomsday in the fight. So superman was Koed by the explosion of the gas station but due to the exhaustion caused by his fight with Doomsday.

A logical conclusion is exactly used for this purposes. You look at the premises and then come up with a conclusion.

If the premises are false the logical conclusion most likely is wrong.

In this case all that material is written by the same person which only means that he contradicted himself saying one thing and portraying another one.

This is why logical conclusions work and are great for comics. Even if sometimes the element of sci fi is involved.

Also getting kind of tired of this back and forth. I don't have the energy I used to.

So we might continue this tomorrow or just leave it where it is.

I am honestly physically tired 😛

Pak made a whole system to explain a feat. He then went really in depth with said feat. That feat exists.
He made Hulk get stunned by Hercules in a weaker state in a surprise attack. That feat also exists.

You're trying to take away a feat simply because you think it contradicts when you're ignoring the entire nature of Hulk's character and all the work Pak put into wanking him.

It's a ****ing high end feat, that's all it is. There is no lying. There is only forgetting and fluctuating strength. The same guy had Hulk punch two people amped a thousand times so hard it killed them impacting a ****ing ship. It's about this time you realize Pak was in it for the feats rather than making sense. Same with an even further amped WBH cosmic Hulk and likewise She Rulk stomping Fin Fang Foom really hard on Earth and not destroying it or causing any damage. Does that mean we ignore a planet blowing up in favor of a conflicting case? No. It's just what the guy chose to write. He loves Hulk and hates logic.

Hulk could have been knocked out by a human under Pak and it still wouldn't erase the actual feat.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
There is no back and forth or working things out. I don't understand why this would need to continue either.

Pak made a whole system to explain a feat. He then went really in depth with said feat. That feat exists.
He made Hulk get stunned by Hercules in a weaker state in a surprise attack. That feat also exists.

You're trying to take away a feat simply because you think it contradicts when you're ignoring the entire nature of Hulk's character and all the work Pak put into wanking him.

It's a ****ing high end feat, that's all it is. There is no lying. There is only forgetting and fluctuating strength. The same guy had Hulk punch two people amped a thousand times so hard it killed them impacting a ****ing ship. It's about this time you realize Pak was in it for the feats rather than making sense. Same with an even further amped WBH cosmic Hulk and likewise She Rulk stomping Fin Fang Foom really hard on Earth and not destroying it or causing any damage. Does that mean we ignore a planet blowing up in favor of a conflicting case? No. It's just what the guy chose to write. He loves Hulk and hates logic.

Hulk could have been knocked out by a human under Pak and it still wouldn't erase the actual feat.

This guy right here. Good stuff bro.

It is hilarious that people try to ignore the rules of logical fallacies to suit their own arguments.

This reminds me Carver ignoring the rules of real life logic and then wanting me to quantify a feat.

Logic and logical conclusion exist exactly to disprove things like this and comics have to follow certain logical rule in order to be quantifiable other wise we can just throw wil feats like SS being koed by a hammer and hulks lungs withstanding 133.5 hercs

"Quantifying Feats
Our reality’s normal rules of logic and physics are to be used and respected for the quantification of feats and are assumed to apply to fictional settings by default. This includes the assumptions that there are identical chemical elements and that materials and terms match their real-life counterparts.

Exceptions to this may occur when the setting in question ignores or changes this standard. Such cases do not render any proven feats invalid. For example, many fictional characters move faster than sound without causing sonic booms; this shows that sonic booms do not occur when those characters move at such speed, but not necessarily that sonic booms are impossible within the setting in question or that the speed of sound is different; more explicit proof is needed to establish such general rules"

Logical conclusion help on this case.

😂

See, you're playing smug again when you're literally making up your own logic just so you can ignore a feat.

"Are people using scans from comics? Allow me to overrule that with an abundance of the word 'logical'."

You're talking about comics, more specifically you're talking about a guy who has unlimited anger and apparently his strength cap wasn't seeing Betty murdered or his new wife murdered. Or his dad molesting him. No the strongest he's ever been is looking at his old flame being red. Look what a logical character he is.

You want to know what counts more than your conclusions about logic? A scan from a comic.

Also did you just say that anyone using a scan from the comic stating the power of the attack was using a logical fallacy? 😂

I have called it a high feat. Just like your example of Surfer is a low feat. What you're doing however is trying to reach a point where it just doesn't exist. You're trying to drag everything about it down while you ignore every other piece of surrounding context around Pak's Hulk in favor of one surprise attack on a calmer Hulk. It's not even his best feat under a worldbreakerless Pak. 😂

I miss the days when people would just call pis on things.

Also huge lol on using a rule meant to apply to real world logic and it specifically is talking about shit like sonic booms. Others under that rule would be planets, suns, oxygen, etc.

What the **** sort of real world logic can you get from a magic gas ghost being inhaled by a 1000 pound green gamma man that is born from a 120 pound scientist getting angry? That he has lungs?

Why are you so desperate to erase this feat? No one even gives a **** about it besides Carver

Let me put this easy for you

McDuffie says WW is overpowering for a few seconds Amazo with the power strength of Superman and herself staked.

Does it holds water? Or this is just an embellishment of the narration?

How is it possible that WW is overpowering herself and Superman's strength at the same time when she is just WW strong?

You have the premises now are you going to say that WW is stronger than WW and Superman stacked?

I don't think so and that happen in a comic and has the narration on it. One of the premises is wrong therefore to say that WW is stronger than WW and Superman together is the wrong logical conclusion.

Is just as simple as that. And like I said this whole gig of WBH is easily destroyed with all the contradictions Pak had in his own run.

But anyhow, that is all I am saying. We agree to disagree, the only way you could change my mind is if you can come up with an aceptable logical conclusion and I won't change your point of view with logical conclusions, so we agree to disagree on this matter.

The Hulk does not have a static strength limit, but instead he has vast dynamic strength. This would only be confusing if we were to ignore that the Hulk has dynamic strength and did not learn to use that dynamic strength to it's near limit when he was on Sakaar. Wonder Woman does not make sense, but the Hulk and Superman do, because they both have vast dynamic strength. Pak did not go outside of the boundaries, but instead used what he was given to work with.

Ok was the 133.5 hercs feat was performed by WBH or by a calm hulk?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Doesn't matter what contradicts what. You being a Superman fan should know of conflicting showings. You're talking about a character who ramps from 0 to 100 in seconds who was written by a shitty writer who is a massive fanboy of the character.

Pak went out of his way in the comic to create that measurement system pretty much for the sole purpose of that feat. He stressed it numerous times in that story too.

He gave Hulk a really high feat. It's not rocket science. These things happen in comics.