Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The sheer fact that people argue so strongly for both DD and Punisher suggests to me that they were pretty equal, so much so that multiple people viewing the same fights had differing opinions.
Indeed. They were quite obviously peers, with slight advantages over each other in certain categories.
Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Indeed. They were quite obviously peers, with slight advantages over each other in certain categories.
Yeah, they are slightly different beasts, but both highly effective, and seemingly virtually an equal match for each other. Frank is more like a brutal, military Krav Maga guy, where as Matt is more like an acrobatic ninja.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And the fight scenes were so amazing. It's the best comic book adaptation EVER IMO. Nothing even comes close.
Yeah, one of the big things I love about this show is that they really put an effort into creating some spectacular fight scenes. In fact, one of my favourite ones was when Matt fought those bikers, with the chain and gun stuck to his hands, just because of how they shot it, with the camera following him as he takes out one after the other. I also loved the Punisher/gang prison fight, just because of the straight-up brutality.
Also, Elektra was the worst thing of season 2 IMO. My first reaction when she was stabbed in the final episode was, "Good, I hope she stays dead for at least one season. Give us Bullseye and more Fisk instead."
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerDon't get me wrong, Punisher did well. But it was pretty clear at the end, When DD knew what to expect from Frank he made the fight look pretty sad. At the end, Daredevil was clearly above Frank in H2H.
The sheer fact that people argue so strongly for both DD and Punisher suggests to me that they were pretty equal, so much so that multiple people viewing the same fights had differing opinions.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, given everything that has been said (taking both the more extreme and neutral opinions together), I think a fair conclusion to make is that depowered Thor, Frank and Matt appear to be pretty equal overall, and that any match between 2 of the 3 of them would be tough to call.
Yup. Best call yet.
Originally posted by abhilegendIt was not a feint. Punisher pushed him off after they were already done fighting, and lost before the thugs showed up which was why he pushed him off (because the ship was going to blow). He was in no way trying to trick him. He just beat him down.
No, it was a feint from Frank to push Matt out of the boat.Because Matt again attacked him from behind.
Huh? Frank again had Matt down at one point before he was shot. How's that a tie?
Matt started with a chain to the back of his head and started wailing on him. Frank soaked it all and flattened Matt again who was down for enough time to Frank to set up his gun and then Matt again cheapshotted him with a wrench to the back of his head and choked him out by the chain. Which wouldn't be possible if he hadn't had a chain.
And he wasn't gimped. He fought like 20 thugs right after that.
Frank wasn't there to fight Matt. If it was, he could've killed him several times.
Not sure where you get that.
Like you said, Matts hits didn't do much. All it did was get Punishers attention and then they fought on equal terms, after which Matt beat him down.
Twenty thugs he could have taken out much easier if he had his normal armored fists and batons. This IS a gimp to his fighting style.
Honestly, it looks like you are trying you best to swing it in Castle favor despite him never actually having flat out won a fight (unlike DD). Everyone else agrees, they are almost on equal terms with DD edging out a bit. Punisher is definitely not the greater of the two.
Originally posted by PsychotronYour point? Punisher never took on ninja assasins. Also, the breadth and knowledge of the Armed Forces Elite trained units vastly outmatches that of Ninjas. You're obviously not really clear on the kind of training they have to go through.
Guys who definitely can't take ninja assassins in H2H when outnumbered 4-5 to 1.
Anyway, point is, all we have to go on is Thor easily taking down Shield's most highly trained agents whilst being unarmed. Punisher never takes down highly skilled combatants at ANY point during DD season 2 while he's unarmed. Every time Punisher won a fight he used a weapon of some kind. Same applies here.
I mentioned this previously, but the easiest way to do this is simply swap Thor's and Punisher's places. Imagine Thor being in the prison taking out those prisoners. Does he take them out more easily than Frank did?
Imagine Frank trying to infiltrate the SHIELD base. Does he take out the SHIELD agents as easily (or more) as Thor does?
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, given everything that has been said (taking both the more extreme and neutral opinions together), I think a fair conclusion to make is that depowered Thor, Frank and Matt appear to be pretty equal overall, and that any match between 2 of the 3 of them would be tough to call.
This 👆
Also dont know if its been mentioned but after Thor beat down "Some of Coulsons best" . Coulson even interrogated Thor trying to find out where he got his training from. Meaning He was impressed and knew that he was highly trained in combat.
Hard to pick a winner.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
It was not a feint. Punisher pushed him off after they were already done fighting, and lost before the thugs showed up which was why he pushed him off (because the ship was going to blow). He was in no way trying to trick him. He just beat him down.
Yes, it was. Frank willingly gave up the fight.
He took far worse attacks in the previous fights and never gave up.
Like you said, Matts hits didn't do much. All it did was get Punishers attention and then they fought on equal terms, after which Matt beat him down.
Haha, no. What are you talking about?
Twenty thugs he could have taken out much easier if he had his normal armored fists and batons. This IS a gimp to his fighting style.
Proof of this? It also helped him in choking Frank out. So no, it wasn't a gimp.
Honestly, it looks like you are trying you best to swing it in Castle favor despite him never actually having flat out won a fight (unlike DD). Everyone else agrees, they are almost on equal terms with DD edging out a bit. Punisher is definitely not the greater of the two.
He won his very first fight with Daredevil even after Matt ambushed him. WTF are you talking about?
Daredevil is more skilled than Frank but Frank is flat out stronger. It evens out in the end.
Thor doesn't has a prayer of winning here though.
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Your point? Punisher never took on ninja assasins. Also, the breadth and knowledge of the Armed Forces Elite trained units vastly outmatches that of Ninjas. You're obviously not really clear on the kind of training they have to go through.Anyway, point is, all we have to go on is Thor easily taking down Shield's most highly trained agents whilst being unarmed. Punisher never takes down highly skilled combatants at ANY point during DD season 2 while he's unarmed. Every time Punisher won a fight he used a weapon of some kind. Same applies here.
Taking out Daredevil in h2h alone shits on anything Thor did. Beating random shield agents one after one isn't as impressive as you're making out to be.
Ward beat like a dozen shield agents alone. At once.
Originally posted by abhilegendSo in other words, your going to cover your ears and scream at the top of your lungs. A+ debating there champ 👆
Yes, it was. Frank willingly gave up the fight.He took far worse attacks in the previous fights and never gave up.
Haha, no. What are you talking about?
Proof of this? It also helped him in choking Frank out. So no, it wasn't a gimp.
He won his very first fight with Daredevil even after Matt ambushed him. WTF are you talking about?
Daredevil is more skilled than Frank but Frank is flat out stronger. It evens out in the end.
Thor doesn't has a prayer of winning here though.
Ignore facts all you want, but DD>Punisher and Thor>Punisher