Thanos vs Apocalypse

Originally posted by Stoic
While I have yet to see anything that Apoc has done to make me believe that he would defeat Thanos on solely a physical basis, I'm wondering why this discussion has suddenly become about physical strength? Thanos has many other powers that he could rely upon other than tech, and/or strength. Odin one shot KO'd the Surfer, but had to pour it on in a prolonged battle against Thanos, which shows without a doubt that Thanos has always been portrayed to be above this level of character. Apoc has proven that he would be a good fight for the likes of Loki, Thor, and a few others of that weight class. Galactus would absolutely destroy Apoc, Annihilus with his recent upgrade would tear him apart.

Tyrant would dance on his spine, and there is simply no way on Earth that Apoc would survive being blasted by Omega. Then we have Lord Mar-Vell and his entire Cancerverse crew losing to Thanos while in possession of a Cosmic Cube unit. Thanos surviving being hit several times by the CCU prior to beating Lord Mar-Vell, and what does Apoc bring to the table? Well let's see, Apoc was hurt by Black Bolt who only gave Thanos a bloody nose, and he looked good against Thor. Until Apoc has more showings and can actually prove himself, I can't see how this is anything more than a curb stomp in favor of Thanos.

Apoc is a technopath and can take over Thanos tech and use it against Thanos (or for himself)
Apoc heals instantly.
Apoc has cutting weapons.
Apoc has physical strength that can hurt Thanos.

Odin one shot Surfer is absolutely meaningless since Surfer is a known jobber. Surfer has resisted stronger attacks without fail. Plus those are physical blasts. Apoc beats Thanos by taking over his tech or by physically knocking him out or cutting him up.

Galactus would beat Apoc as he would beat Thanos. Apoc could survive Omega as long as Thanos did. But that's irrelevant since neither is in this thread. Apoc is not beating Thanos with his own blasts. He's beating him physically and by taking over his tech.

Because Thanos would be hard pressed to put someone down that can heal instantly, physically ko him, and has the ability to take over his tech.

Originally posted by Inedian
Well, Apocalypse did one shot Khul (who put down Avengers) and Scarlet Witch hexes didn't work on Khul.

Recently, in Secret Wars # 7, Apocalypse easily beat 2 Thors (it seems he also killed one) while having a conversation with Sinister's severed head.

Thanos also best several Thors at once during secret wars. Iirc he killed or easily exiles Hyperion

Originally posted by h1a8
Apoc is a technopath and can take over Thanos tech and use it against Thanos (or for himself)
Apoc heals instantly.
Apoc has cutting weapons.
Apoc has physical strength that can hurt Thanos.

Odin one shot Surfer is absolutely meaningless since Surfer is a known jobber. Surfer has resisted stronger attacks without fail. Plus those are physical blasts. Apoc beats Thanos by taking over his tech or by physically knocking him out or cutting him up.

Galactus would beat Apoc as he would beat Thanos. Apoc could survive Omega as long as Thanos did. But that's irrelevant since neither is in this thread. Apoc is not beating Thanos with his own blasts. He's beating him physically and by taking over his tech.

Because Thanos would be hard pressed to put someone down that can heal instantly, physically ko him, and has the ability to take over his tech.

Originally posted by h1a8
Apoc is a technopath and can take over Thanos tech and use it against Thanos (or for himself)
Apoc heals instantly.
Apoc has cutting weapons.
Apoc has physical strength that can hurt Thanos.

Odin one shot Surfer is absolutely meaningless since Surfer is a known jobber. Surfer has resisted stronger attacks without fail. Plus those are physical blasts. Apoc beats Thanos by taking over his tech or by physically knocking him out or cutting him up.

Galactus would beat Apoc as he would beat Thanos. Apoc could survive Omega as long as Thanos did. But that's irrelevant since neither is in this thread. Apoc is not beating Thanos with his own blasts. He's beating him physically and by taking over his tech.

Because Thanos would be hard pressed to put someone down that can heal instantly, physically ko him, and has the ability to take over his tech.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
I challenge you to show anytime Apoc has taken over high end tech like Thanos has in battle and used it against someone. And anytime he's ko'd someone with the lvl of durability Thanos has.

Use logic, I'm not saying he would do the same to Thanos as he did to Thor. By almost shattering Thor's spine in a single hit proves that he can definitely hurt Thanos with physical attacks (just not to the same level as Thor). Thanos isn't resistant against cutting weapons. That's also an option.

Originally posted by h1a8
A technopath can take over any tech by default, unless the tech has resistance against being taken over. This is the same rule we use for tp. Tp will also work unless a character has shown resistance to it.

Use logic, I'm not saying he would do the same to Thanos as he did to Thor. By almost shattering Thor's spine in a single hit proves that he can definitely hurt Thanos with physical attacks (just not to the same level as Thor). Thanos isn't resistant against cutting weapons. That's also an option.

Again you're talking rubbish as you're using a showing for a long time ago in terms of continuity in which Apoc hasn't shown to be near in terms of power/strength since.

You do know Apoc has never defeated someone solely on using cutting weapons let alone anyone as durable or powerful as Thanos.

I want you to give actual examples, not just guessing using power sets.

Saying a technopath can take over any tech by default seems like not the best logic. If I created a character who is from the 1920s and is shown taking over 1920's technology, you would then conclude this character could even take over technology that is thousands of years ahead of our own?

Also wait..what technology does Thanos even usually carry around with him that Apocalypse could try to take over? Surely you don't mean Apocalypse would take over the bionics Thanos has inside him?

Oh and where did you get the idea that Thanos has some sort of vulnerability to cutting weapons? If Apocalypse presents such a danger to Thanos then I'm confused why Thanos wouldn't just teleport him away?

Originally posted by carver9
FYI...Young Thor has survived direct hits from Gor who is a trans tier/skyfather level character and Young Thor kept fighting. Thor, even during his young days was hellava durable. High Herald durable. So Apocalypse almost breaking his spine is a beastly showing. Crazy showing.

I really have no answer for this as you are completely right Carver, that is a great showing for Apoc. So you also think Thor hasnt become more durable and stronger since that time? Even though every older incarnation of Thor is way more powerful than its younger self. That was pretty much a new amped apoc as well. He sure as hell wasnt breaking Adult Thor's anything and you cant say it was all axe. Apoc, Absorbing Man,Cyclops,Havok and somebody else got straight up soloed by an Adult Thor Odinsin, and it was a completely one sided domination for the majority. It was even said Thor and Kluh were basically killing everybody and there wasnt anybody on the field on their level at that particular moment.

I'm down if somebody says Apoc splits or takes a majority over high herald, but he doesent have the track record to my knowledge to take more than maybe 1-2 matches at best.

Also, I simply wanted to know where he came up with the "Apocalypse is stronger than Thanos", "Thanos is not much more durable than Thor" and the "Thanos is lowest of Trans, 1.5 × herald level strength"?

Originally posted by Insane Titan
I challenge you to show anytime Apoc has taken over high end tech like Thanos has in battle and used it against someone. And anytime he's ko'd someone with the lvl of durability Thanos has.

He won't be able to, he'll only bring irrelevant and unproven things to the table while calling actual relevant feats irrelevant. I'd imagine having a conversation in real life with him to be a lot like swimming with no limbs.

Originally posted by Stoic
He won't be able to, he'll only bring irrelevant and unproven things to the table while calling actual relevant feats irrelevant. I'd imagine having a conversation in real life with him to be a lot like swimming with no limbs.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
so you have no showings for Apoc with technopathy, you're just going from power set.

Again you're talking rubbish as you're using a showing for a long time ago in terms of continuity in which Apoc hasn't shown to be near in terms of power/strength since.

You do know Apoc has never defeated someone solely on using cutting weapons let alone anyone as durable or powerful as Thanos.

I want you to give actual examples, not just guessing using power sets.

How would Thanos win? Apoc heals instantly. Thanos would have to CONTINUE to damage Apoc faster than he can heal until Apoc is KOed or killed. Apoc has forcefiesld too and can teleport. He can hit Thanos away, hurting him, and heal instantly.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
If you imagine any conversation with h1 in real life to not end with a broken foot and a bloody shoe then you're not imagining right.

Was Apoc ever shown to be weaker than the time he almost shattered Thor's spine (outside of PIS)? If not, then that's his forum strength. There's nothing to average.

Originally posted by h1a8
Was Apoc ever shown to be weaker than the time he almost shattered Thor's spine (outside of PIS)? If not, then that's his forum strength. There's nothing to average.

You're arguing power set, and not character or even feats. Apoc doesn't have a prayer here considering his track record against far less than Thanos. This isn't just about strength, but a variety of things. Thanos actually had the power to match the In-Betweener's power output in order to free him from a prison that he was placed in by Master Order and Lord Chaos. He shattered a platoon of Galactus' Punisher units like they were toys, and each one of them could give a herald a heap of trouble. He defeated Lord Mar-Vell, and his Cancerverse versions of the Avengers and they had a Cosmic Cube aiding them. Again, what has Apoc done to place him on that level? Apoc at best has only proven to be Mid-High Herald. Firelord has even given Thor trouble. However that wasn't Thor fighting at his best, but fighting like he forgot how to use his other powers to their fullest, which was most likely him holding back out of for fear of killing Firelord.

Originally posted by h1a8
ok I drop the techno path argument. It wasn't sound.
Apoc manhandled and restrained Hulk before. Anyway, is there any contradictory feats by Apoc that shows him weaker in strength?
If not, then there is no contradiction in his physical strength.
If Apoc is durable and hard enough to shatter Thor's spine then his cutting weapons should be hard enough to cut Thor and Thanos. Apoc can create bludgeoning weapons such as hammers, rams, etc.

How would Thanos win? Apoc heals instantly. Thanos would have to CONTINUE to damage Apoc faster than he can heal until Apoc is KOed or killed. Apoc has forcefiesld too and can teleport. He can hit Thanos away, hurting him, and heal instantly.

"Apocs weapons should be good enough to cut Thanos" ffs so you don't even know again. Apoc couldn't put Ikaris down by stabbing him in the chest.

Seriously learn about what you're trying to preach.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
So basically what you're saying is that apparently Sue watching and helping bring about the downfall to the clone doesn't count because it was just another writer and Thanos for sure was in the astral plane because the word astral was used?

Huh? Are you really this dense?

Sue fought with Thanos in one scene and Thanos alone fought the clone in another.

The inconsistencies were plenty in the tie ins. For example, here is a single fight with three different versions in three different comics.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/Crusades-05-18.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/Crusades-05-19.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/Crusades-05-20.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/WebofSpider-Man106-06.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/WebofSpider-Man106-07.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/WebofSpider-Man106-08.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/WebofSpider-Man106-09.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-11.jpg

Which one to believe?

Astral suicide was used because he was worried about what would happen to his own mind and spirit if he killed this clone. Him saying he is merely a husk is finding out that nothing would happen to himself. It's entirely explained in the scans you told me to read.

Ha, and why the hell were those two actually radiated with an aura when Thanos went all "astral suicide" on himself?

It was not a oneshot as you are trying to picture it. Thanos didn't went and punched through the clone. In fact the clone was beating his ass down in h2h.

In fact the only thing in the scans that even begins to defend you is 2 words... so why you are telling me to read is weird. Not the mention you see nothing wrong or odd with "suicide" being used there. Because why would he say that in a mental battle he was entirely sure he was going to win?

And the fact that both are enveloped in psychic auras?

The fight was never in the astral plane though. There is no proof that it was. You're essentially saying one depiction of the fight doesn't count because the word "astral" was used.

And the fight happened differently in both scenes. Like the fact that Thanos and the clone were not enveloped in psychic auras.

Not to mention the writer of the Sue fight was the editor in chief of the entire Infinity War event in Tom Defalco
I am of the firm belief that Tom consulted with Jim. The fight was not in the astral plane.

Starlin always does his own thing.

It was like a panel or two of a choke. He grabbed a sitting ally and choked him briefly in a surprise attack basically. You're putting way too much stock in that.

The clone obediently sat like a dog afterwards. It was clear who was the boss there.

Of which Thor wasn't shown to stalemate Thanos. We however do have more to the battle in tie ins, but apparently tie ins don't count anymore if they provide more context.

Yes, because it was a snapshot.

I never said it was non canon, and that's exactly what you're trying to do with the Sue fight anyway.
It's just entirely irrelevant. "Hey, check out this low feat, crazy huh?" What purpose does this have? What purpose does arguing it have? It is not a consideration at all.

And why not? The same writer wrote it after all. You can't take one feat and discard another because it doesn't suits your agenda.

Quasar's constructs are only shown to weaken once they get cracked or he loses focus.

Continuous attacks do too. Just a few issues before, 6 to be precise, random Imperial Guards broke through his reinforced shields.

There were only two imperial guards, rest were illusions.

They were never shown to crack, nor was he ever worried about it. And Adam Warlock was never shown to fire an attack, there was no green in that beam.

Continuous attacks weaken his shields. He is not a GL, he has to continuously reinforce his shields.

Haha, what? There was a trail of energy for the soul gem and Thanos both.

All his showed was energy as in Warlock was ready to use the soul gem. And even if Warlock did help, the soul gem wouldn't exactly be the biggest help against something without a soul like a shield.

So many excuses. Once again, its not Thanos sole feat. Its a shared feat.

And even if we assume they split the blast 50-50 (even though again, no green was shown in the blast), that still makes Thanos more powerful than any two heroes there.
Either way you want to slice it, it doesn't matter.

Of course it does, the shield got battered down and then they destroyed it. They are almost as powerful as two Imperial Guards. Impressive.

It's also funny how you want to diminish that scene when you literally just said that [b]a scene like that doesn't become non canon just because you don't like it.
I'd have to say a scene where normal Thanos battles normal people has a lot more relevant than showing how hopeless trying to defeat IG Thanos is. And I'd have to say that the context surrounding that battle that you yourself admitted was largely off panel should not become non canon.

What are you babbling about now?

And I was woefully misinformed on this new rule we have on characters from different writers not being able to be used. Apparently Starlin would have written Thanos a lot different than Gruen if he wrote that scene or something? The guy who wrote fp Thanos basically tanking IG punches would have had a problem with that?

Yes. Apparently you don't know how comics work.

This isn't a case where one writer decides to go off the deep end and do whatever he wants. There is not one tie in you could point to where one Thanos is more powerful than the other. There's not much difference besides the context other writers decide to include.

So you think Thanos could manhandle Hulk under Starlin? I'd like to show you the famous scan from Thanos Quest but you are already enough butthurt as it is.

Nobody said you wanted to back anyone. Like I said, all you came to do was lowball and spread false information.

Haha, what? What false information?

Let's reiterate here:
There is no proof of this battle happening in the astral plane. All Thanos was talking about was destroying his own self with killing the clone. Just because the word "astral" was used, that doesn't automatically mean a mental battle.

Astral plane and astral auras do however.

Tom Defalco, the editor in chief of the event and the editor in chief of Marvel wrote a tie in where Sue watched and helped Thanos defeat the clone the entire time he was supposed to be in the astral plane.

Not really. She helped him defeat the clone in a different manner than what Starlin did.

And that's it. That's all that needs to be said to tell that it never happened in the astral plane. [/B]

You wish. That's not how comics work.

Apocalypse beats Thanos, no doubt about it.

With the Thanos feat breaking Quasar's shield there is a contradiction in logic Bran is using.

One of the following has to be true.
1. If no hit weakened the shield , then the shield was only proven to be stronger than the sum of the specific character's that struck the shield simultaneously (not all of them).

2. If each hit weakened the shield little by little (as shown in Gladiator example) then Thanos blasted a weakened shield.

3. Gladiator is far more powerful than Thor, Hulk, Hercules, etc combined.

Originally posted by Inedian
Apocalypse beats Thanos, no doubt about it.

Except for the part where there is some serious doubt about it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Huh? Are you really this dense?

Sue fought with Thanos in one scene and Thanos alone fought the clone in another.

The inconsistencies were plenty in the tie ins. For example, here is a single fight with three different versions in three different comics.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/Crusades-05-18.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/Crusades-05-19.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/Crusades-05-20.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/WebofSpider-Man106-06.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/WebofSpider-Man106-07.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/WebofSpider-Man106-08.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/WebofSpider-Man106-09.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-11.jpg

Which one to believe?

Ha, and why the hell were those two actually radiated with an aura when Thanos went all "astral suicide" on himself?

It was not a oneshot as you are trying to picture it. Thanos didn't went and punched through the clone. In fact the clone was beating his ass down in h2h.

And the fact that both are enveloped in psychic auras?

And the fight happened differently in both scenes. Like the fact that Thanos and the clone were not enveloped in psychic auras.

Starlin always does his own thing.

The clone obediently sat like a dog afterwards. It was clear who was the boss there.

Yes, because it was a snapshot.

And why not? The same writer wrote it after all. You can't take one feat and discard another because it doesn't suits your agenda.

Continuous attacks do too. Just a few issues before, 6 to be precise, random Imperial Guards broke through his reinforced shields.

There were only two imperial guards, rest were illusions.

Continuous attacks weaken his shields. He is not a GL, he has to continuously reinforce his shields.

Haha, what? There was a trail of energy for the soul gem and Thanos both.

So many excuses. Once again, its not Thanos sole feat. Its a shared feat.

Of course it does, the shield got battered down and then they destroyed it. They are almost as powerful as two Imperial Guards. Impressive.

What are you babbling about now?

Yes. Apparently you don't know how comics work.

So you think Thanos could manhandle Hulk under Starlin? I'd like to show you the famous scan from Thanos Quest but you are already enough butthurt as it is.

Haha, what? What false information?

Astral plane and astral auras do however.

Not really. She helped him defeat the clone in a different manner than what Starlin did.

You wish. That's not how comics work.

You know you're wrong. I know you're wrong. Hell I even looked to h1's post and he knows you're wrong since he's not afraid to let his opinion heard. Usually he'd respond to anything he thought was wrong.

You realize you are now solely hinging your argument on auras when you know damn well you use the "artist inconsistency" argument like every other debate? And the reason Sue wasn't there in the other fight is because she was invisible... IE her appearance doesn't conflict with anything.

Hell you even basically are admitting you're wrong when you say things like the writer didn't consult with Starlin or psychic auras weren't there. Yes, Tom Defalco, the active editor in chief at Marvel and the active editor of the event did not consult with Starlin, and just wound up in the very same pose before Thanos punched him on accident. It was a coincidence. Same with the punch that led to him grabbing him by the collar. Same with a lot, because it was the same thing. An aura doesn't completely change the landscape of a fight. And where exactly does this leave us if we choose to put heavy emphasis on auras anyway? One fight had auras and the other didn't even though they followed the same chain and had the same action scenes and there is absolutely no proof they went to the astral plane besides "auras"? Are they two different fights? Did the clone get beaten twice? Is one non canon? Where does your stretching lead to?
I could see if there was actual proof they went to the astral plane, and Sue was watching them in another that it would conflict, but there wasn't. You're twisting words without actually convincing yourself of it, and saying the fight where Sue watched them just doesn't count because psychic auras... look you've already nigh admitted that Sue was there for the end of the fight (and watching the whole time) unless you're saying they had two fights, then you can't be right.
Even if we somehow think the Starlin fight was confusing and needed context for us to understand where they were battling, luckily we have the editor in chief of the event to come along and make a comic that showed they were on the physical plane. Luckily comics aren't videos where the exact same attacks have to be shown or else something is off. Luckily comics can add or take away attacks since the fights aren't fluid motion more often than not. And luckily Tom Defalco (editor in chief of Marvel and the event) chose to include in a comic the uppercut and collar grab that mirrored the end of the Starlin fight signifying that it was not only the same fight, but the end of the fight as well.

Also, here's Thanos apparently being half psychic aura, half physical:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15718601/5895684.jpg.html

Apparently Thanos powers up his "psychic aura" (a word never used in the comic) to envelop slowly over his physical body so both exist on the same plane...

Not to mention you're using a red herring from a different writer and comic and telling me to find the difference when the fight is pretty much the same but with more Alpha Flight.

I'm going to go out of character here, but I want to give you some advice. Not trying to be a dick.
I thought if I were civil to you, you would have less issues admitting you're wrong, but no. I thought, if this is the one time abhi is wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, then he might just admit it. It doesn't matter how wrong you are, you are going to argue with it. You know why people like Carver? Because he doesn't take himself seriously. Carver is wrong all the time but still likable. He's not afraid to admit he's wrong.
On the other hand, Quan, and h1 are said to be wrong all the time. What they have in common is that they never admit it. People do not like these posters. H1 comes in here with no proof and starts making up powers. Argues with everyone. You come in here with no proof, and say the editor in chief of Marvel is wrong and it's a totally different fight (?). Will not admit he's wrong. Do you seek to distance yourself from these posters or do you choose to become these posters?

I'd have a lot more respect for you if you just admitted you made a mistake, as I'm sure a lot of this forum would. Maybe it would avoid memes like "You always hated me". Maybe some people would start to actually listen to you a little. I don't know, but what I do know is that what you're doing right now isn't working. You got the last word, good for you, it still doesn't change the facts. People aren't stupid, they can see what's going on. You could be the best debator that ever lived, but if people know you're wrong, and no evidence collaborates with what you're saying, then where does that leave you at the end of the day?

I'm not going to waste my time with this anymore and I could answer the rest, but when you can't even accept the fact that you are 110 percent wrong and are making things up on half of it, then there's no point going further with you. Hell, you literally said here that the writer didn't consult with Starlin and when you were told that the writer was the editor in chief of Marvel, you still tried to defend that position by saying Starlin does his own thing. 😂
What are you even supposed to do in a debate with someone that just keeps digging himself into a deeper hole, and no matter how deep he gets, he will always find a way to go deeper? I don't think I've ever had a debate with you when you were this wrong. I do want to continue but shit... it's just you being a wall making up excuses every post.

So you can have the last word, make sure you get your insults in to mask how delusional you are, and have a good day friend. 🙂