Team 1 wins sabers with low-moderate difficulty.
All-out is much closer with Krayt and Arcann being the undecided for me. As I am the least familiar with Legacy-Era characters. However, with what I know of Wyyrlok, Nox is solidly above him as far as force application and the fact, as pointed out by Neph, Wyyrlok's main retinue of tricks are nullified by Nox's own advantages. Even so, I'm undecided for all-out as I am unsure which contest would end first.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't really care.Wyyrlok can't threaten Nox with mental attacks, sorcery, lightning, TK or in sabers. It's Nox's fight to lose and she ain't losing. Her demolishing of Thanaton is better than Wyyrlok's feats.
Base Nox was able to defeat a Jedi Master so powerful no Sith on Alderaan dared face him, destroyed a small army right after getting off Korriban, has lightning capable of shattering rock and defeated Khem and a Terentatek with a training saber. Yet even when Nox supplemented her power with that of two ghosts, one of which was one of the greatest Sith Sorcerers in the Empires history, Thanaton still one-shot her and Khem. Nox at her peak utterly destroyed Thanaton, casually backhanding his lightning and ragdolling him. She's above Wyyrlok.
Firstly, let me quickly address your cute little list of opinions.
"Wyyrlok can't threaten Nox with sorcery.".... Right. Darth Wyyrlok, one of the most knowledgable Sith in history, doesn't eclipse Nox with Sorcery? I could see the argument, she's the head of the "an purmid of Ancient Knowledge" and studies rituals for a living. Right. So does Wyyrlok, and he's been doing it for decades longer my friend.
"Known as the Loremaster of the Sith, Darth Wyyrlok is one of the greatest scholars of Jedi, Sith and other Force-using traditions in the galaxy. Darth Wyyrlok has access to books, scrolls, holocrons and computer records from across eons, which he has collected in the hopes of gaining a deeper understanding of the Force."
"His knowledge of the History and lore of the Sith is unparalleled, and he is surpassed in the force only by Darth Krayt."
Now I'm not attempting to assert Wyyrlok's going to ritual **** her, but your casual assertion that Nox is his superior in sorcery is pretty baseless :/
Lightning? You say Nox has destroyed stone? Congratu****inglations, if only Wyyrlok had a feat where he destroyed something infinitely harder, maybe something that could repel lightsaber strikes even.... Oh wait. That's right. His lightning was strong enough to eviscerate Darth Krayt's Vonduun Crab Armor:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/4577218-star+wars+-+legacy+%2348+004.jpg
"A vonduun crab’s shell is capable of repelling blasterfire, resisting most conventional melee weapons, and even deflecting lightsaber blades."
Now, TK. I'm not even going to bother making an argument, until I get an answer to this question. How on earth does Nox's choking plebians and TK'ing nothing too major, compare with the fact that Wyyrlok is stated solidly more powerful in all areas of the Force than Sith who throw starships like they're nothing, and crash orbital stations into the ground?
As for sabers, again, since Wyyrlok's fight with Krayt goes off panel, and he obviously at least contended with him, what Saber only feats does Nox have that places him anywhere near Wyyrlok?
Out of your list of combat "accomplishments", none of them even come close to something Wyyrlok could not accomplish. As for your Thanaton arguments, Nox draws upon the ghosts varying amounts at a time, it's why they only overpowered her when she attempted to use them all at the same time at the end of act 2, and not sooner. Thanaton taking her out doesn't mean he broke through all of them at once. Your attempt at power scaling is cute, if you want to use that as your main argument I'm definitely down. I prefer feats though mmm
Originally posted by Nephthys
Just to check Sel, you understand what I mean by "Base Nox", right? As in, Act 1 Nox without the collective power of 5 Force Ghosts and personal improvement? My response will vary depending on your answer (between delirious laughter and not).
Yes, if they were prime Nox's feats she wouldn't be TCW Ahsoka level.
I frankly don't give a flying **** about being better than a bunch of nameless, featless Sith on Alderaan. Beating 4-5 droids at a time is also beyond irrelevant :>
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=877848 saw it here 😆
Just realizing it says spring
Originally posted by hutchy1345
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=877848 saw it here 😆
Just realizing it says spring
Yeh but like.... Why do you browse the TOR forums.
Originally posted by Selenial
WTB Zoltan's wtf gifs.Firstly, let me quickly address your cute little list of opinions.
"Wyyrlok can't threaten Nox with sorcery.".... Right. Darth Wyyrlok, one of the most knowledgable Sith in history, doesn't eclipse Nox with Sorcery? I could see the argument, she's the head of the "an purmid of Ancient Knowledge" and studies rituals for a living. Right. So does Wyyrlok, and he's been doing it for decades longer my friend.
"Known as the Loremaster of the Sith, Darth Wyyrlok is one of the greatest scholars of Jedi, Sith and other Force-using traditions in the galaxy. Darth Wyyrlok has access to books, scrolls, holocrons and computer records from across eons, which he has collected in the hopes of gaining a deeper understanding of the Force."
"His knowledge of the History and lore of the Sith is unparalleled, and he is surpassed in the force only by Darth Krayt."
Now I'm not attempting to assert Wyyrlok's going to ritual **** her, but your casual assertion that Nox is his superior in sorcery is pretty baseless :/
I didn't say that Nox is superior in sorcery. I said that Wyyrlok can't threaten her with sorcery. Because he cannot. He's displayed no sorcery capable of affecting her. All his displayed sorcery is mental-based, which Nox would laugh off.
Also I'd say that Nox likely has access to far more Sith lore and knowledge than anything the Legacy Sith have. And you're forgetting that Thanaton has had just as much time to study Sith Lore as Wyyrlok plus has access to all I mentioned previously and he couldn't do diddly squat to Nox. I'm fairly certain that she's also actually confirmed to possess a wider array of sorcerous abilities than Wyyrlok is, given she's known to possess drain, stealth, mental attacks, dark healing and rituals.
Originally posted by Selenial
Lightning? You say Nox has destroyed stone? Congratu****inglations, if only Wyyrlok had a feat where he destroyed something infinitely harder, maybe something that could repel lightsaber strikes even.... Oh wait. That's right. His lightning was strong enough to eviscerate Darth Krayt's Vonduun Crab Armor:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...y+%2348+004.jpg
"A vonduun crab’s shell is capable of repelling blasterfire, resisting most conventional melee weapons, and even deflecting lightsaber blades."
It seems you've forgotten that I said that this was BASE Nox. Act 1 Nox, who was still growing into her own power. Who had not yet harnessed the combined might of 5 Force Ghosts. All I was doing was establishing Nox's power unamped so that we could better powerscale her powers at her pinnacle, to impress upon you that Nox already has remarkably potent ability in this regard before a massive increase in power. Peak Nox's lightning would certainly infinitely stronger.
Also I'm not too impressed with that scan. He doesn't appear to be doing much damage to it, just separating the pieces and destroying whatever's holding it together.
It also seems that you've once again forgotten that I only said that Wyyrlok couldn't threaten her with his lightning. Which he cannot. Nox has high-end defenses against Force Lightning. She casually back-handed Thanaton's Force Lightning (who's lightning is absolutely nothing to sneeze at), something I don't think anyone's ever replicated. Deflecting Force Lightning at all is supposed to be "almost impossible" and "a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters". That Nox backhanded such powerful lightning, with such obscene ease, speaks not only of her defensive capabilities, but of her incredible Force Mastery. Later, Thanaton attempts to use a massive, charged Force Storm on her and she literally just walks through the attack.
Wyyrlok isn't doing shit to her with lightning and his own defenses aren't as strong as Nox's. She can likely get through his defenses with some ghost-powered lightning and destroy him.
Originally posted by Selenial
Now, TK. I'm not even going to bother making an argument, until I get an answer to this question. How on earth does Nox's choking plebians and TK'ing nothing too major, compare with the fact that Wyyrlok is stated solidly more powerful in all areas of the Force than Sith who throw starships like they're nothing, and crash orbital stations into the ground?
It seems you're not going to bother with an argument because you don't actually have one, kek. I already know Wyyrlok has no impressive TK feats, so you can drop the act. It's pretty funny that you claim to prefer feats at the end of your post after this paragraph.
Nox ragdolling Thanaton >>>>>> Wyyrlok ragdolling Krayt's dead corpse.
Originally posted by Selenial
As for sabers, again, since Wyyrlok's fight with Krayt goes off panel, and he obviously at least contended with him, what Saber only feats does Nox have that places him anywhere near Wyyrlok?
If by that you mean that he was clearly being pressed and unable to mount a single attack and then later gets pathetically blitzed, then sure. Nox is stated to be just as skilled with a lightsaber as she is with the Force, and as I just established that's pretty goddamn skilled. As I already said, she defeated Khem Val and a Terentatek back to back with only a training saber. As an acolyte. As a recently freed slave with no combat experience. After fighting through tombs to get to him. Obviously she would have immensely improved her skills since then, and post-Act 3 she has access to Tulak Hord's lightsaber teachings. She also defeated a Sith Lord after being drained of the Force. Frankly, she has far more impressive lightsaber skills to Wyyrlok. "Didn't get owned by Krayt but then whoops he did" isn't enough to suggest superiority.
And, again, I merely said that Wyyrlok can't threaten her. Even if he proves the superior swordsman, which I doubt, she can just block his lightsaber with the Force.
Originally posted by Selenial
Out of your list of combat "accomplishments", none of them even come close to something Wyyrlok could not accomplish.
Maybe because they were all Act 1 feats. 😐
Originally posted by Selenial
As for your Thanaton arguments, Nox draws upon the ghosts varying amounts at a time, it's why they only overpowered her when she attempted to use them all at the same time at the end of act 2, and not sooner. Thanaton taking her out doesn't mean he broke through all of them at once.
If you'd actually watched the fight, Thanaton tries a lesser attack first and Nox activates the ghosts and blocks him. Thanaton then gets serious and one-shots Nox and Khem at once through her raised defenses. Good to see you know what you're talking about though.
Originally posted by Selenial
Your attempt at power scaling is cute, if you want to use that as your main argument I'm definitely down. I prefer feats though
Cool. 👆
Nox's feats are better. 🙂
Originally posted by Selenial
Yes, if they were prime Nox's feats she wouldn't be TCW Ahsoka level.I frankly don't give a flying **** about being better than a bunch of nameless, featless Sith on Alderaan. Beating 4-5 droids at a time is also beyond irrelevant :>
You're arguing based on power-scaling here, honey. All I was doing was establishing that even "acolyte" Nox was able to defeat a very powerful Jedi Master and his padawans before any improvements. And lol, the game actually calls it an army repeatedly and Nox wrecks it literally still in the prologue. It was headed by a Sith Lord too. So Nox literally just off of Korriban was already killing Sith Lords and smashing armies. 5 droids my ass.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't say that Nox is superior in sorcery. I said that Wyyrlok can't threaten her with sorcery. Because he cannot. He's displayed no sorcery capable of affecting her. All his displayed sorcery is mental-based, which Nox would laugh off.Also I'd say that Nox likely has access to far more Sith lore and knowledge than anything the Legacy Sith have. And you're forgetting that Thanaton has had just as much time to study Sith Lore as Wyyrlok plus has access to all I mentioned previously and he couldn't do diddly squat to Nox. I'm fairly certain that she's also actually confirmed to possess a wider array of sorcerous abilities than Wyyrlok is, given she's known to possess drain, stealth, mental attacks, dark healing and rituals.
It seems you've forgotten that I said that this was BASE Nox. Act 1 Nox, who was still growing into her own power. Who had not yet harnessed the combined might of 5 Force Ghosts. All I was doing was establishing Nox's power unamped so that we could better powerscale her powers at her pinnacle, to impress upon you that Nox already has remarkably potent ability in this regard before a massive increase in power. Peak Nox's lightning would certainly infinitely stronger.
Also I'm not too impressed with that scan. He doesn't appear to be doing much damage to it, just separating the pieces and destroying whatever's holding it together.
It also seems that you've once again forgotten that I only said that Wyyrlok couldn't threaten her with his lightning. Which he cannot. Nox has high-end defenses against Force Lightning. She casually back-handed Thanaton's Force Lightning (who's lightning is absolutely nothing to sneeze at), something I don't think anyone's ever replicated. Deflecting Force Lightning at all is supposed to be "almost impossible" and "a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters". That Nox backhanded such powerful lightning, with such obscene ease, speaks not only of her defensive capabilities, but of her incredible Force Mastery. Later, Thanaton attempts to use a massive, charged Force Storm on her and she literally just walks through the attack.
Wyyrlok isn't doing shit to her with lightning and his own defenses aren't as strong as Nox's. She can likely get through his defenses with some ghost-powered lightning and destroy him.
It seems you're not going to bother with an argument because you don't actually have one, kek. I already know Wyyrlok has no impressive TK feats, so you can drop the act. It's pretty funny that you claim to prefer feats at the end of your post after this paragraph.
Nox ragdolling Thanaton >>>>>> Wyyrlok ragdolling Krayt's dead corpse.
If by that you mean that he was clearly being pressed and unable to mount a single attack and then later gets pathetically blitzed, then sure. Nox is stated to be just as skilled with a lightsaber as she is with the Force, and as I just established that's pretty goddamn skilled. As I already said, she defeated Khem Val and a Terentatek back to back with only a training saber. As an acolyte. As a recently freed slave with no combat experience. After fighting through tombs to get to him. Obviously she would have immensely improved her skills since then, and post-Act 3 she has access to Tulak Hord's lightsaber teachings. She also defeated a Sith Lord after being drained of the Force. Frankly, she has far more impressive lightsaber skills to Wyyrlok. "Didn't get owned by Krayt but then whoops he did" isn't enough to suggest superiority.
And, again, I merely said that Wyyrlok can't threaten her. Even if he proves the superior swordsman, which I doubt, she can just block his lightsaber with the Force.
Maybe because they were all Act 1 feats. 😐
If you'd actually watched the fight, Thanaton tries a lesser attack first and Nox activates the ghosts and blocks him. Thanaton then gets serious and one-shots Nox and Khem at once through her raised defenses. Good to see you know what you're talking about though.
Cool. 👆
Nox's feats are better. 🙂
You're arguing based on power-scaling here, honey. All I was doing was establishing that even "acolyte" Nox was able to defeat a very powerful Jedi Master and his padawans before any improvements. And lol, the game actually calls it an army repeatedly and Nox wrecks it literally still in the prologue. It was headed by a Sith Lord too. So Nox literally just off of Korriban was already killing Sith Lords and smashing armies. 5 droids my ass.
👆 👆 👆
Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't say that Nox is superior in sorcery. I said that Wyyrlok can't threaten her with sorcery. Because he cannot. He's displayed no sorcery capable of affecting her. All his displayed sorcery is mental-based, which Nox would laugh off.
Also I'd say that Nox likely has access to far more Sith lore and knowledge than anything the Legacy Sith have.
Cute, baseless opinion you have there. Not only did Wyyrlok have access to most of the Sith History that survived Palpatine's fall, but he was also one of the only Sith in history to have unrestricted access to all of Darth Andeddu's secrets and holocrons. Even the power of Essence Transfer.
It seems you've forgotten that I said that this was BASE Nox. Act 1 Nox, who was still growing into her own power. Who had not yet harnessed the combined might of 5 Force Ghosts. All I was doing was establishing Nox's power unamped so that we could better powerscale her powers at her pinnacle, to impress upon you that Nox already has remarkably potent ability in this regard before a massive increase in power. Peak Nox's lightning would certainly infinitely stronger.
So in effect, you're using an almost entirely unexplained concept to hope to the high heavens that Nox's power gain is 100% of what the ghosts' original power was? Force Ghost power doesn't work like that, unless you have a quote proving otherwise.
Also I'm not too impressed with that scan. He doesn't appear to be doing much damage to it, just separating the pieces and destroying whatever's holding it together.
It also seems that you've once again forgotten that I only said that Wyyrlok couldn't threaten her with his lightning. Which he cannot. Nox has high-end defenses against Force Lightning. She casually back-handed Thanaton's Force Lightning (who's lightning is absolutely nothing to sneeze at), something I don't think anyone's ever replicated. Deflecting Force Lightning at all is supposed to be "almost impossible" and "a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters". That Nox backhanded such powerful lightning, with such obscene ease, speaks not only of her defensive capabilities, but of her incredible Force Mastery. Later, Thanaton attempts to use a massive, charged Force Storm on her and she literally just walks through the attack.
In regards to her "back-handing Thanaton's force lightning"... Lol. You are forgetting to mention the fact this is immediately following the line "No... I won't be defeated, I can't be" through exasperated tone. This is a Thanaton who's already lost the first round of the fight, and is clearly depleted. On top of this, the two are fighting in the Dark Council Chambers in one of the most powerful Dark Side Nexus' in the galaxy. Whoever is in the healthiest position is in the best position to abuse the Nexus, and obviously since he's beaten and weakened, and she was victorious, deflecting his lightning is not anywhere near as impressive as it would be while both were in their prime.
Now, what is ****ing hilarious is that Wyyrlok did the exact same thing, in the font of Darth Andeddu's power. This being the Dark Lord of the Sith who reined for hundreds of years, reanimated.
Wyyrlok isn't doing shit to her with lightning and his own defenses aren't as strong as Nox's. She can likely get through his defenses with some ghost-powered lightning and destroy him.
It seems you're not going to bother with an argument because you don't actually have one, kek. I already know Wyyrlok has no impressive TK feats, so you can drop the act. It's pretty funny that you claim to prefer feats at the end of your post after this paragraph.Nox ragdolling Thanaton >>>>>> Wyyrlok ragdolling Krayt's dead corpse
Wyyrlok is confirmed to be stronger in Telekinesis than any other One Sith. Dozens of other One Sith have better Telekinetic showings than Darth Nox does. That is all that needs to be said.
Thanaton was incredibly weakened at that point. Oh, and Wyyrlok has launched tonnes of rubble at incredibly speed, so he quite blatantly is proficient in Telekinesis 🙂
If by that you mean that he was clearly being pressed and unable to mount a single attack and then later gets pathetically blitzed, then sure. Nox is stated to be just as skilled with a lightsaber as she is with the Force, and as I just established that's pretty goddamn skilled. As I already said, she defeated Khem Val and a Terentatek back to back with only a training saber. As an acolyte. As a recently freed slave with no combat experience. After fighting through tombs to get to him. Obviously she would have immensely improved her skills since then, and post-Act 3 she has access to Tulak Hord's lightsaber teachings. She also defeated a Sith Lord after being drained of the Force. Frankly, she has far more impressive lightsaber skills to Wyyrlok. "Didn't get owned by Krayt but then whoops he did" isn't enough to suggest superiority.
If by that you mean he's clearly a Soresu duelist who was barely holding off Krayt, which is something I never argue against, then sure. He got "Pathetically blitzed" by Krayt because his blade was down and he was lulled into believing he'd dominated Krayt's mind. That's not exactly going to happen with Nox. Holding off Krayt is a phenomenal feat, considering Krayt's one of the greatest duelists in Sith history 🙂
No, Nox as an inquisitor was said to be as skilled with the blade as the force. The game makes it incredibly clear though that you only pick one path, in many of the canon discussions you have. Hence the quote does not apply 🙂
Please prove to me that this Sith Lord was anything decent with a blade. Or with Telekinesis. Seeing as you can block Lightning with a Lightsaber without even being force sensitive, and he has nothing on him as a duelist. Youngling tier confirmed 🙂
And, again, I merely said that Wyyrlok can't threaten her. Even if he proves the superior swordsman, which I doubt, she can just block his lightsaber with the Force.
Ah, so all you're arguing is that she's inferior in literally everything but won't die. That's really relevant in a team fight 👆
If you'd actually watched the fight, Thanaton tries a lesser attack first and Nox activates the ghosts and blocks him. Thanaton then gets serious and one-shots Nox and Khem at once through her raised defenses. Good to see you know what you're talking about though.
Link pls, we're obviously talking about different fights.
You're arguing based on power-scaling here, honey. All I was doing was establishing that even "acolyte" Nox was able to defeat a very powerful Jedi Master and his padawans before any improvements. And lol, the game actually calls it an army repeatedly and Nox wrecks it literally still in the prologue. It was headed by a Sith Lord too. So Nox literally just off of Korriban was already killing Sith Lords and smashing armies. 5 droids my ass.
Cool. Jedi Krayt had a decent duel with Kenobi. Sith Krayt >>>> Son since he improved exponentially twice 🙂
As for the army, since she didn't take them all on at the same time, I don't give a flying ****.
Originally posted by SelenialIn regards to her "back-handing Thanaton's force lightning"... Lol. You are forgetting to mention the fact this is immediately following the line "No... I won't be defeated, I can't be" through exasperated tone. This is a Thanaton who's already lost the first round of the fight, and is clearly depleted. On top of this, the two are fighting in the Dark Council Chambers in one of the most powerful Dark Side Nexus' in the galaxy. Whoever is in the healthiest position is in the best position to abuse the Nexus, and obviously since he's beaten and weakened, and she was victorious, deflecting his lightning is not anywhere near as impressive as it would be while both were in their prime.
Now, what is ****ing hilarious is that Wyyrlok did the exact same thing, in the font of Darth Andeddu's power. This being the Dark Lord of the Sith who reined for hundreds of years, reanimated.
Nexus or not, tanking a ****ing massive Force Storm like it's absolutely nothing, literally just standing there taking the full power of the bolts >> anything Wyyrlok throws at Nox with the Force.
And Thanaton's lightning is prominent enough to allow him to fly, no Nexus.
No, pretty sure we're talking about the same fight:
12.10 - 12.40.
This is the only time Thanaton one-shots Nox so I can't think of any other fight you could be thinking of. As you can see, Nox clearly has her ghost-powered defenses up. She has Ergast and Andru at this point.
I'll get to the rest later.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, pretty sure we're talking about the same fight:12.10 - 12.40.
This is the only time Thanaton one-shots Nox so I can't think of any other fight you could be thinking of.
I'll get to the rest later.
Yeh, see I didn't (and still don't) think he actually attacked the first time.
Oh, and there's no point having the power to defend against anything if you don't know how to defend against it.
The 4 masters were combined > Traya, but she had a technique they didn't know how to defend against. Nox is obviously in the same position.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Nexus or not, tanking a ****ing massive Force Storm like it's absolutely nothing, literally just standing there taking the full power of the bolts >> anything Wyyrlok throws at Nox with the Force.And Thanaton's lightning is prominent enough to allow him to fly, no Nexus.
At full strength, yes. Still not seeing how that automatically places him above Wyyrlok though. Esoteric =/= more raw power.
And yes, while in the ghost form she tanked that with likely tutaminis. However she obviously cannot maintain the ghost power constantly, or she would not be walking around not using it 98% of the time.
It's actually shown very well with the new KOTFE storyline. Using Valkorion's power takes insane tolls on the body of whoever is using it. I challenge any of you to prove Nox is exempt to this...
