Darth Krayt/Darth Wyyrlok vs. Arcann/Darth Nox

Started by Beniboybling6 pages

Originally posted by Nephthys
It could be Vader doing it and I'd still say Thanaton's was more impressive. It was just some rocks. Such a basic and indirect attack isn't mind-blowing. Look:

Oh yeah, clearly such an amazing attack. Look at the sheer force of it. Wow.

Kek, Krayt doesn't even have any really impressive TK feats tho.

I'm going to have to check in at the clinic after this, because I'm pretty sure you've given me a brain tumor. 😬

Those "rocks" were held in the grip of a vastly powerful Sith Lord, and therefore in order to repel them Wyyrlok would have had to overcome the telekinetic force directing them at him, there is nothing indirect about it and the size and weight of the projectiles is irrelevant lol.

And for the record Krayt > Vader. 🙂

Originally posted by Selenial
How the **** do you defend against a ritual you've never heard of. The whole point of rituals is to be esoteric and difficult to combat, to do things you are not yourself capable of. Palpatine says exactly that in the book of Sith. Thanaton was clearly not breaking through it with raw power 😬

With Force defenses. 😬 They stop people from using the Force on you. Theres barely any techniques that require a specialized defense. Esoteric doesn't mean "non-standard defense". Knowing about a ritual isn't necessary for defense. If someone does a ritual that shoots lightning (which is in the game), you can block it with normally no matter if you know about it or not. Unless you can prove there was something special about the ritual, there's no reason to assume it couldn't be defended against normally.

Which you can't do, because you can't prove anything to do with this theory of yours.

Originally posted by Selenial
Nope. She was dying from the power, and the mother machine said that her power will no longer consume her. That doesn't mean she can use it freely at all. You have still utterly failed to come up with a reason why it's any different to Valkorion in KOTFE.

Except she's shown using the power of all the ghosts freely without issue. 😬 The problem started when she tried to do that in Act 2. At the end of Act 3 she pulls it off and is stated to be able to wield the combined power of all the ghosts as a weapon. Theres absolutely no reason to think Nox would be negatively harmed, and we actually see its not the case. In KotFE you don't have a body specifically engineered to house and use Valkorions power.

I love how Neph only showed the picture with the forced perspective to make them look small as well, those boulders were actually pretty sizeable:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/4577157-10.png

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm going to have to check in at the clinic after this, because I'm pretty sure you've given me a brain tumor. 😬

Those "rocks" were held in the grip of a vastly powerful Sith Lord, and therefore in order to repel them Wyyrlok would have had to overcome the telekinetic force directing them at him, there is nothing indirect about it and the size and weight of the projectiles is irrelevant lol.

And for the record Krayt > Vader. 🙂

Wyyrlok got TK pwned by Andeddu. Who isn't more powerful than Wyyrlok considering how their fight turned out. He definitely isn't more powerful than Krayt.

And he didn't have to overcome anything, firstly Krayt overcame his TK by wresting control over those rocks in the first place and then throwing them back and all Wyyrlok did was throw up a bubble and watch them bounce off. Vader's thrown objects at people as well and they certainly didn't impact with the force of a bomb or anything.

Lol, Vader >> Krayt in TK.

Originally posted by Selenial
I love how Neph only showed the picture with the forced perspective to make them look small as well, those boulders were actually pretty sizeable....

Meh, looks like perspective to me. The biggest are closer to the "camera". And they're decent sized by nothing special.

What the **** Sel?! You've just made this entire page a pain in the ass to read through. Thanks 👆

Originally posted by Nephthys
With Force defenses. 😬 They stop people from using the Force on you. Theres barely any techniques that require a specialized defense. Esoteric doesn't mean "non-standard defense". Knowing about a ritual isn't necessary for defense. If someone does a ritual that shoots lightning (which is in the game), you can block it with normally no matter if you know about it or not. Unless you can prove there was something special about the ritual, there's no reason to assume it couldn't be defended against normally.

Which you can't do, because you can't prove anything to do with this theory of yours.


There is no more reason for it to be a ritual you can defend against than it being a ritual you can't, without what Thanaton says. With what Thanaton says, it becomes remarkably clear. There are hundreds of rituals which we see no defense against, you see them all the time.

To be honest, even if it's true that it's not a ritual, all that's proving is that Nox isn't as powerful with ghosts as you're suggesting, since Thanaton isn't some uber powerful Sith Lord eclipsing the rest of the council, in fact he's laughed at and considered one of the lowest among them...

Except she's shown using the power of all the ghosts freely without issue. 😬 The problem started when she tried to do that in Act 2. At the end of Act 3 she pulls it off and is stated to be able to wield the combined power of all the ghosts as a weapon. Theres absolutely no reason to think Nox would be negatively harmed, and we actually see its not the case. In KotFE you don't have a body specifically engineered to house and use Valkorions power.

Incorrect.

You see, she uses the ghosts defensively numerous times before she explodes in a ball of rage that knocks her out. She's fine. Only when using them rampantly offensively does she ever experience issue, IE, when she unleashes all of their power at once, she can't control them. Then she finds out the ghosts are killing her without her even using them. All the previous ghost walkers died mysteriously, which indicates the ghosts will kill any host they're found in unless a solution is invented. That solution was the mother machine.

Afterwards, she's no longer dying. Does she use the ghosts for a massive explosion that one shots Thanaton though? Does she use them to deflect his lightning? No. She uses them sparingly, because she still suffers the effects of excessive use. Just because they're not killing her slowly doesn't mean she's immune to every downside of the power 😬

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What the **** Sel?! You've just made this entire page a pain in the ass to read through. Thanks 👆

Ngl wasn't expecting that mmm

Fixed, TBH.

Thank you. I legitimately mean that. You could've left it there but you didn't. Props to you 👆

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wyyrlok got TK pwned by Andeddu. Who isn't more powerful than Wyyrlok considering how their fight turned out. He definitely isn't more powerful than Krayt.

And he didn't have to overcome anything, firstly Krayt overcame [b]his TK by wresting control over those rocks in the first place and then throwing them back and all Wyyrlok did was throw up a bubble and watch them bounce off. Vader's thrown objects at people as well and they certainly didn't impact with the force of a bomb or anything.

Lol, Vader >> Krayt in TK.

Meh, looks like perspective to me. The biggest are closer to the "camera". And they're decent sized by nothing special. [/B]

Kek, no one was arguing Wyyrlok > Krayt in TK, especially since there's a quote saying Krayt "far outstrips" every One Sith in the specific realms of Telekinesis and Lightning...

Which, by the way, is why Krayf isn't << Vader in TK 😬

Your Legacy knowledge is abysmal Neph, stick to TOR.

I never said anyone was arguing that.

And no, Vader is still >> Krayt in TK.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wyyrlok got TK pwned by Andeddu. Who isn't more powerful than Wyyrlok considering how their fight turned out. He definitely isn't more powerful than Krayt.
Because Wyyrlok failed to defend himself...
And he didn't have to overcome anything, firstly Krayt overcame [b]his TK by wresting control over those rocks in the first place and then throwing them back and all Wyyrlok did was throw up a bubble and watch them bounce off. [/b]
Bounced off a bubble? Lmao. Since when is that a thing?

You've misread the panel, you can tell by Wyyrlok's gesture that he's deflecting them with telekinesis.

Vader's thrown objects at people as well and they certainly didn't impact with the force of a bomb or anything.
That's not the point. The kinetic force of the attack isn't important, its the fact that Wyyrlok was able to overcome the Krayt driving them forward.
Lol, Vader >> Krayt in TK.
Its called powerscaling my friend. Educate yourself. 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Bounced off a bubble? Lmao. Since when is that a thing?

You've misread the panel, you can tell by Wyyrlok's gesture that he's deflecting them with telekinesis.

Since Force Bubbles are a thing?

Sel's quote says that Krayt "far outstrips" Wyyrlok in TK though.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's not the point. The kinetic force of the attack isn't important, its the fact that Wyyrlok was able to overcome the Krayt driving them forward.

Krayt isn't driving them forward though. In the first panel they're shown rimmed with his power to indicate his grip. In the second they're not, indicating that he's thrown them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Its called powerscaling my friend. Educate yourself. 🙂

Meh. I doubt there's a One Sith near Vader in the least.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Since Force Bubbles are a thing?

Sel's quote says that Krayt "far outstrips" Wyyrlok in TK though.

I don't remember them being particular bouncy, it stands to reason the rocks would shatter on impact. 😬

What's your point? Valkorion "far outstrips" Arcann in all respects yet he still blocked his lightning, which you wank the hell out of.

Face it, its an impressive showing, and better than anything Nox has accomplished in that regard.

Krayt isn't driving them forward though. In the first panel they're shown rimmed with his power to indicate his grip. In the second they're not, indicating that he's thrown them.
Uh-huh, except in the previous panel Wyyrlok is lifting and directing the rocks without any glowy blue light so that doesn't indicate anything.

Nor does it make sense for Krayt to release his grip as that would lessen the potency of the attack.

Meh. I doubt there's a One Sith near Vader in the least.
Cool, you can start with these guys:

Who are well below the likes of Wyyrlok on the Sith totem pole, who Krayt himself outstrips. Go figure. 🙂

As for the whole "not being able to handle the ghosts at full potency" thing. Like a sensible person rather than state "I think this so you're wrong" or "I believe this so HA!" I went back and watched these scenes myself. In the Act 2 finale, Nox is overwhelmed by the spirits all flooding him/her with their power, which is what unleashed the blast Sel says would still deteriorate Nox. Which, while plausible, is a superfluous argument. The real question to ask is not whether that same energy would still harm Nox that way,but rather, are the ghosts still capable of unleashing all that energy in such a way that it damages Nox? To which the answer is no and is WHY Nox can wield it as she does at the End of Act 3, as is obvious, in a more refined and effective manner without burning her body out.

Now, as to Thanaton being tired when we cinematically see Nox bat away his lightning and TK dominate him, etc. It always intrigues me that people seem to act like Nox hadn't just fought Thanaton and was instead coming in when he was already beaten down. Yes Thanaton is tired, why? Because Nox defeatd him through superior Force mastery. This childish notion of "X could only do Y to Z because Z was tired" right after they fought is applying a stipulation caused by X to begin with in this instance. For example, on a more physical plane and one not open to as much interpretation....

Try saying the same ting about say... two MMA fighters and one submitting the other when the one who was victorious was obviously superior the entire fight. "Well, X only submitted him because he was tired!" obviously, we just saw the other out-fight them to GET them there so.... pointless fact, bravo.

And before Sel says something along the lines of... what was it? "Nox had to tire Thanaton out to ragdoll him." first of all game mechanics due to the fact that in the MMO you have to deplete a health bar. Second, if Sel is going to say things are true since she believes them, then I will take my turn if you please.

Obviously at the end of the confrontation Thanaton is winded. What is interesting to note is that there is actually a clue here as to the "tone" of the fight itself, despite us doing it in a game-mechanics fight. Nox, obviously not winded, doesn't just kill Thanaton and be done with. (Obviously able to as well) Instead Nox shows Thanaton their disparity in power by tanking everything he throws at her and stays standing. Now, like Sel's thoughts but with obvious view-able support, these are speculations based on what can be observed by any who watch this cinematic.

Frankly I'm not seeing this is a particularly relevant or telling argument. OK so Nox stomped Thanaton, Wyyrlok gave Darth Andeddu the same treatment.

Not really comparable. Wyyrlok exploited a psychological weakness, Nox godstomped.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Frankly I'm not seeing this is a particularly relevant or telling argument. OK so Nox stomped Thanaton, Wyyrlok gave Darth Andeddu the same treatment.

Well Beni, when one uses their opinion/interpretation to undermine feats, mind you with support from an all-too-willing-to-believe party, you have to start at square one.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Frankly I'm not seeing this is a particularly relevant or telling argument. OK so Nox stomped Thanaton, Wyyrlok gave Darth Andeddu the same treatment.

I also don't see why you need to be Vader's equal in TK to outclass Nox, Thanaton, or Arcann, tbh.

Beni thinks Krayt's > Vader tho.

Also we're discussing Wyyrlok more than Krayt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really comparable. Wyyrlok exploited a psychological weakness, Nox godstomped.
And despite being a master of mental manipulation, and despite it being a stipulated contest of illusions, Andeddu utterly failed to see through them, I think its obvious regardless that Wyyrlok outclassed him.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Beni thinks Krayt's > Vader tho.

Also we're discussing Wyyrlok more than Krayt.

You mean Beni knows. 🙂

You on the other hand are a little behind the curve.