Cap and Winter Soldier V Iron Man

Originally posted by FrothByte
Here's an extra question for you KT:

If you had 1 martial artist who knew all the martial arts in the world. All the moves, all the combinations, practiced them all till he memorized all of them. Yet he'd only ever been in an actual fight once.

Would you pick him to win over another martial artist who's fought 100 fights against top level fighters and won every single fight?

Yes, I still would, all things being equal. I prefer to go with the best most skilled knowledgeable person on a subject. If we look at the Packers on paper and go damn they are much better than the bears...Just because the Bears beat the Giants (let's say a good team) doesn't mean I'll pick them. I prefer to go with the best available person. In this case it's the guy who knows everything the skilled fighter knows, exact he also knows vastly more things.

Now, this is also assuming the non actual fight guy has done sparring and training. Those things can prepare you for a fight and what might happen. When you are rolling with a partner in BJJ, just cause it's not at the mundials, doesn't mean you aren't experiencing similar situations and techniques. You are. Now, if you told me this guy was a monk, and never actually practiced these moves he's studied and is just book smart... well that is a whole other story. In this case, that wouldn't apply since we know IM has been in countless fights. He's no lily white flower here.

I understand what you're trying to say though, but in this case it doesn't really apply Froth

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yes, I still would, all things being equal. I prefer to go with the best most skilled knowledgeable person on a subject. If we look at the Packers on paper and go damn they are much better than the bears...Just because the Bears beat the Giants (let's say a good team) doesn't mean I'll pick them. I prefer to go with the best available person. In this case it's the guy who knows everything the skilled fighter knows, exact he also knows vastly more things.

Now, this is also assuming the non actual fight guy has done sparring and training. Those things can prepare you for a fight and what might happen. When you are rolling with a partner in BJJ, just cause it's not at the mundials, doesn't mean you aren't experiencing similar situations and techniques. You are. Now, if you told me this guy was a monk, and never actually practiced these moves he's studied and is just book smart... well that is a whole other story. In this case, that wouldn't apply since we know IM has been in countless fights. He's no lily white flower here.

I understand what you're trying to say though, but in this case it doesn't really apply Froth

Meh. I'm gonna stop here. It's obvious we'll get nowhere. For what it's worth, I think IM wins solidly against Cap and Bucky as long as he's going for the kill and allowed all his weaponry. I just don't think his AI can outskill Cap. At least not without excessive pre-programming.

But it seems we'll never agree, so I'll just drop this.

Okay Froth, but based on feats it unquestionably has done EXACTLY that. With no prep and on the fly, it figured out his style in a matter of seconds. It was that fast. Computer study his style, okay, bam Cap is countered a few times and sent reeling. That is exactly what was shown on the big screen. But whatever.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay Froth, but based on feats it unquestionably has done EXACTLY that. With no prep and on the fly, it figured out his style in a matter of seconds. It was that fast. Computer study his style, okay, bam Cap is countered a few times and sent reeling. That is exactly what was shown on the big screen. But whatever.

Yes that was what happened. Like I said, the AI wasn't able to do it just off the bat. There was a slight delay where it had to study Cap. It was able to take the time to study Cap because it was durable enough to eat Cap's hits. After that Cap never really got a chance to study it in turn and then counter it on his own. That's due to IM being too strong and durable that even a few seconds of dominance from his side was enough to incapacitate Cap.

That's why I made the other thread where IM and Cap are equalized in strength and durability. So we can focus on just the AI and Cap's fighting skills. We can continue the discussion there.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
H2H/Melee skill? Sure. Combat intelligence/tactical acumen? Going to have to strongly disagree there. Tony has shown time and time again that he is very capable of adapting on the fly and using his intelligence to work out new strategies, in the middle of combat (at least when not emotionally compromised).

His fight with Iron Monger. Tried to engage him straight up initially. That failed, so changed tactics and tried to take him into orbit. That failed, so he started playing stealth games, and got on top of Iron Monger and took out his optical/targeting systems. And ultimately formed a plan to beat him, while busy actively engaging him.

His fight against Whiplash on the racetrack. His initial tactics weren't working, so he grabbed the whips, closed the distance and took him out. Same with the end fight of War Machine/Iron Man vs Whiplash. The team realised they were losing, and quickly changed tactics to take him out with the repulsor combo.

Another good example is the Leviathan in the Avengers. When he realised even his lasers won't cut it, he quickly came up with an out-of-the-box strategy to take one out.

Even his fight with Killian. When he realised Killian was tearing up his suits and healing too quickly, he again changed tactics, slapped his suit on Aldrich and triggered the self-detonate. And that was Tony suffering from PTSD and insomnia.

Or his fight with the Hulk. Once the match started tipping in the Hulk's favour, Tony quickly changed tactics to end it before things got out of hand.

I could keep going. Fact is, by feats, Tony has better tactical acumen and combat intelligence than most of the Avengers.

Remember, he isn't just a super genius. He is a super genius who has been Iron Man for 8 years by now. Even a regular guy will start to learn things and become more tactically competent after being active that long. And Tony is hardly regular.

Very well said ! Tony Stark is by far the smartest character in the MCU 🙂

Originally posted by DrDeadpool
Very well said ! Tony Stark is by far the smartest character in the MCU 🙂

Yes only Doom will be his match when Marvel finally get him back!

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay Froth, but based on feats it unquestionably has done EXACTLY that. With no prep and on the fly, it figured out his style in a matter of seconds. It was that fast. Computer study his style, okay, bam Cap is countered a few times and sent reeling. That is exactly what was shown on the big screen. But whatever.