Originally posted by CPT Space BombLet him? What is Manhattan going to do to stop someone who moves faster than thought and light?
You think Manhattan is going to LET Superman reverse time? Dude, Manhattan is omnipotent. He can turn Superman into a fart in the wind and there won't be a thing Superman can do about it. Superman loses. No power he has is good enough to counter the things Manhattan can do by JUST THINKING.Manhattan Stomps 1000/10
When has Manhattan ever shown the ability to turn someone with Superman's or even near his molecular structure into something?
Kryptonite changes Superman's molecular structure but guess what, since Superman has a constant super power source he is able to heal instantly and keep his molecular structure intact.
So tell me how Dr. Manhattan is going to change someone's molecular structure that is constantly being power to stay the way it is?
Superman has shown that he has full control of his molecular structure and others when he took Lois memory away with a kiss (which probably reach the atomic level). Next he was able to create a time vortex and go through it using his own body.
Superman has shown in Superman II that he is more than willing to use Kryptonian technology in combat.
So no Dr. Manhattan is not going to turn Superman into nothing.
Re: Reeve's Superman vs Dr. Manhattan
Originally posted by Kotor3
Dr. Manhattan come to Superman universe and decides to make the world in his image. A fight between the two starts.All out who wins?
Technology is available to each fighter. For Superman he has his kryptonian tech and Dr. Manhattan has whatever tech he uses if any.
Some abilities for Superman for those who do not remember:
Ability to take away another person memories with a kiss.
Ability to go back into the past using his own body.
Phantom zone is accessible to him.
Ability to move faster than light.
Telekinesis
When did he use Telekinesis?
It wasn't TK, it was Superman hacks.
Originally posted by Kotor3Well yeah, that was kind of a big plot point. Ozy took away his ability to look through the timeline by disrupting it with the nukes , and thus his omniscience (omnipotence is being able to do anything, anytime, omniscience is knowing).
OH, if I recall right the all omnipotent one was not able to save and cure his colleagues from cancer. Instead he ran away when accused.
Manhattan exists at all points in the timeline at once. Time is not fluid for him. Superman cant win because Manhattan would know exactly what he's going to do before the fight ever even started. You say supes is going to constantly charge with the sun and repair himself? He'll block out the sun.
Your claims that Supes has complete control over his molecular structure (he doesn't), and is thus not susceptible to having his structure remodelled on a atomic level is flat out wrong. You're going to have to provide proof of Supes being able to resist being transmuted.
And even if you do, Manhattan can just transmute red kryptonite to take away Supes powers and blow him up Rorschach style, or green kryptonite to kill him the old fashion way.
Manhattan could also just go back in time to when Supes crash lands on earth as a child and intercept the pod to send him into a blackhole or something. People claiming Supes is the one who would go back in time to stop Manhattan are wrong. Manhattan already exists at all points in the timeline, so that wont do much.
There's also the fact that Supes little time travel feat took him back 30 seconds, as opposed to the decades necessary to go back to Manhattans creation point.
Supermans speed is pretty useless too. Manhattan has watched events so fast and so tiny that most would argue that they never even happened at all. He can see the little involuntary facial twitches that tell someone's emotion in the milliseconds they are in existence. He'll be able to follow Supes just fine.
There are so many different ways Manhattan can kill Supes, but not one Supes can kill Manhattan.
Originally posted by CPT Space BombSuperman is considerably more powerful. Based on onscreen feats Superman's power output is considerably above Manhattan's. Manhattan has no feat on par with breaking through time and space to change the course of history or moving a moon, and if the estimation that Manhattan could "only" stop 97% of Russia's nuclear weapons is accurate (it was said by Ozymandias, who is more well-informed on Manhattan's abilities, but isn't infallible as seen when his attempt at killing him failed) this would be the case. Every nuclear weapon in history detonating at the same time would not output the same amount of energy as what Reeves would require to move celestial bodies.
Because he's more powerful. He can do pretty much anything.
However, what Manhattan does have over Reeves is that Reeves can't conventionally fight him. Punching Manhattan accomplishes nothing, and Manhattan arguably has the ability to ignore Superman's durability through his transmutation. For Superman to beat Manhattan he would have to go out of character and fight him unconventionally. Could he travel back in time and kill Manhattan before he gained his superpowers? Sure, but can anyone say that Superman would actually do that? No.
Manhattan can control and manipulate matter. Superman, even with his demigod-like physiology enhanced by Earth's yellow sun, is matter. Manhattan can literally de-atomize Superman.
Manhattan could also create Kyrptonite out of thin air, just like he made a glass castle out of Martian sand and created cold water and milk for Laurie to drink while flying around Mars.
Superman might be light speed/FTL and could potentially vaporize Manhattan, but Manhattan would just re-create himself and split into multiple bodies like did for his scientific research while banging Laurie in the bedroom.
Manhattan also has precog; He can see his own future. Unless Superman has some tachyons in his back pocket, then Manhattan will already have the advantage.
I realize it makes Superman sound more powerful to say that he broke through time and space, but really all he did was fly really fast. so let's not pretend that the feat was more than it was.
It's like arguing that Cris Johnson(Nic Cage) was more powerful than Dr Manhattan as he too could easily change the course of his history via his power.
Originally posted by ImpedimentExactly. The idea that Superman even wins 1 fight out of 10 is silly. Manhattan completely out-trumps Reevesman here.
Manhattan can control and manipulate matter. Superman, even with his demigod-like physiology enhanced by Earth's yellow sun, is matter. Manhattan can literally de-atomize Superman.Manhattan could also create Kyrptonite out of thin air, just like he made a glass castle out of Martian sand and created cold water and milk for Laurie to drink while flying around Mars.
Superman might be light speed/FTL and could potentially vaporize Manhattan, but Manhattan would just re-create himself and split into multiple bodies like did for his scientific research while banging Laurie in the bedroom.
Manhattan also has precog; He can see his own future. Unless Superman has some tachyons in his back pocket, then Manhattan will already have the advantage.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Well yeah, that was kind of a big plot point. Ozy took away his ability to look through the timeline by disrupting it with the nukes , and thus his omniscience (omnipotence is being able to do anything, anytime, omniscience is knowing).
Originally posted by Arachnid1You mean like the previous example or the fact that he was not able to foresee Veidt’s ultimate plan. The fact that he did not know that Verdit would use the same process that made him Dr. Manhattan to try and kill him. How about the fact that Dr. Manhattan did not know before teleporting to a different galaxy that killing Rorschach would amount to nothing since his journal was found by a journalist.
Manhattan exists at all points in the timeline at once. Time is not fluid for him. Superman cant win because Manhattan would know exactly what he's going to do before the fight ever even started. You say supes is going to constantly charge with the sun and repair himself? He'll block out the sun.
Originally posted by Arachnid1You talk about no proof and you are just making up stuff here. I gave clear examples of Superman having control over his molecular structure and others. You gave nothing showing that Superman can be transmuted. Neither did you give one example or shred of proof that he can be transmuted.
Your claims that Supes has complete control over his molecular structure (he doesn't), and is thus not susceptible to having his structure remodelled on a atomic level is flat out wrong. You're going to have to provide proof of Supes being able to resist being transmuted.
And even if you do, Manhattan can just transmute red kryptonite to take away Supes powers and blow him up Rorschach style, or green kryptonite to kill him the old fashion way.
Originally posted by Arachnid1I already proved above that Dr. Manhattan existing at all points in the timeline amounts to nothing since he didn’t stop anything, not even himself from getting caught by an attack for Verdit.
Manhattan could also just go back in time to when Supes crash lands on earth as a child and intercept the pod to send him into a blackhole or something. People claiming Supes is the one who would go back in time to stop Manhattan are wrong. Manhattan already exists at all points in the timeline, so that wont do much.
Originally posted by Arachnid1Are you serious, the movie clearly shows that Superman travel exactly where he wanted to. In Superman II Donner’s cut he does it again. Superman has complete control of that ability.
There's also the fact that Supes little time travel feat took him back 30 seconds, as opposed to the decades necessary to go back to Manhattans creation point.
Originally posted by Arachnid1Here we go again with more blah, blah, blah, and no proof. I already destroy your omniscience argument.
Supermans speed is pretty useless too. Manhattan has watched events so fast and so tiny that most would argue that they never even happened at all. He can see the little involuntary facial twitches that tell someone's emotion in the milliseconds they are in existence. He'll be able to follow Supes just fine.There are so many different ways Manhattan can kill Supes, but not one Supes can kill Manhattan.
Originally posted by ImpedimentThe key sentence that you stated is Superman's demi-god-like physiology. Matter he may be but nothing like Manhattan has seen before. The movie clearly shows that Manhattan does not know everything and has to learn. If he did he would have stop Rorschach's journal from being found and other things that happen in that movie.
Manhattan can control and manipulate matter. Superman, even with his demigod-like physiology enhanced by Earth's yellow sun, is matter. Manhattan can literally de-atomize Superman.Manhattan could also create Kyrptonite out of thin air, just like he made a glass castle out of Martian sand and created cold water and milk for Laurie to drink while flying around Mars.
Superman might be light speed/FTL and could potentially vaporize Manhattan, but Manhattan would just re-create himself and split into multiple bodies like did for his scientific research while banging Laurie in the bedroom.
Manhattan also has precog; He can see his own future. Unless Superman has some tachyons in his back pocket, then Manhattan will already have the advantage.
There is no reason to believe that Dr. Manhattan has any knowledge of Kryptonite and how to form it. Even if Superman atoms could be effected by Manhattan, to say it would be instant with no feat from Manhattan remotely showing him doing so to something that can compare to Superman is a very big assumption especially since Superman would constantly heal.
A better assumption would be that Superman would use Kryptonian tech to find a way to subdue or trap Dr. Manhattan since tech like the Phantom zone shows that Kryptonians had knowledge of inter-dimensional technology.
Originally posted by Silent MasterWhat is force? Velocity times weight.
I realize it makes Superman sound more powerful to say that he broke through time and space, but really all he did was fly really fast. so let's not pretend that the feat was more than it was.It's like arguing that Cris Johnson(Nic Cage) was more powerful than Dr Manhattan as he too could easily change the course of his history via his power.
Speed is power, or at least a facet. The fact that Superman's feats of physical strength are also beyond any showing of power Manhattan has supports my claim that Superman is, in fact, more powerful than Manhattan. He'd still lose the fight with CIS on (which IIRC it is by default).
Also, I don't know who the **** Cris Johnson is.