Originally posted by The_Tempest
The new treasurer of my fan club has put forth a compelling argument to undermine that. Valkorion doth protest too much.
I've always found quotes that predate Valkorion's existence and therefore his inclusion in such analyses to be pretty inadequate in demonstrating who's actually superior. Another example of this would be stating Exar Kun is superior to Vitiate because of blanket statements implying he was the greatest of the ancient Sith Lords.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I've always found quotes that predate Valkorion's existence and therefore his inclusion in such analyses to be pretty inadequate in demonstrating who's actually superior. Another example of this would be stating Exar Kun is superior to Vitiate because of blanket statements implying he was the greatest of the ancient Sith Lords.
That example doesn't actually work: Exar Kun's status as the most powerful Sith during what we now know to be Vitiate's lifetime is explicitly contradicted by newer sources, such as The Old Republic Encyclopedia, which proclaim that Vitiate was the most powerful Sith Lord in history at the time.
Nothing explicitly contradicts Sheev's superiority over Valkoriate.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
That example doesn't actually work: Exar Kun's status as the most powerful Sith during what we now know to be Vitiate's lifetime is explicitly contradicted by newer sources, such as The Old Republic Encyclopedia, which proclaim that Vitiate was the most powerful Sith Lord in history at the time.Nothing explicitly contradicts Sheev's superiority over Valkoriate.
Except Valkoriate not being a Sith Lord. Even if we assume that Palpatine is superior in "taming the dark side," (which is still a funny quote given that the quote also implies that Ulic Qel Droma of all people wasnt all that far behind Sheev in taming the dark side, and that Droma was more worthy of consideration than anyone else in this regard, including someone like, say, Vader) it still doesn't preclude superiority over Valkorion, given that he cared not for "taming" the dark side of the force. He had embraced a superior philosophy by then.
Spoiler:
not that the above quote should really be relied on to prove anything given the aforementioned reasoning.
Valkorion simply has better combat feats, in universe hype, and haxx than Sidious.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Except Valkoriate not being a Sith Lord. Even if we assume that Palpatine is superior in "taming the dark side," (which is still a funny quote given that the quote also implies that Ulic Qel Droma of all people wasnt all that far behind Sheev in taming the dark side, and that Droma was more worthy of consideration than anyone else in this regard, including someone like, say, Vader) it still doesn't preclude superiority over Valkorion, given that he cared not for "taming" the dark side of the force. He had embraced a superior philosophy by then.Spoiler:
not that the above quote should really be relied on to prove anything given the aforementioned reasoning.
Valk's status as a Sith is confirmed by the codex, though. You misused "preclude." And I don't cling to the DESB quote about "taming the dark side" as ironclad evidence of Sheev's superiority over Valk.
You've offered nothing that qualifies as an implicit contradiction, let alone an explicit one, which is why your example with Kun/Vitiate crumbles alongside your entire platform.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion simply has better combat feats, in universe hype, and haxx than Sidious.
Nah, not really. Sheev has better feats, better accolades, and didn't need 8k Sith Lords and 14 centuries to get them.
This is actually a good point tho:
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
There's a quote in the codex that claims Nox rules a sphere in the Empire, and even though literally all evidence says Nox hasn't even been to the Empire in five ****ing years, and that the Dark Council doesn't even exist anymore, Nox must still be on it. The codex says so.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Valk's status as a Sith is confirmed by the codex, though. You misused "preclude." And I don't cling to the DESB quote about "taming the dark side" as ironclad evidence of Sheev's superiority over Valk.You've offered nothing that qualifies as an implicit contradiction, let alone an explicit one, which is why your example with Kun/Vitiate crumbles alongside your entire platform.
Nah, not really. Sheev has better feats, better accolades, and didn't need 8k Sith Lords and 14 centuries to get them.
1. Which is contradicted at least 3-4 times by the actual game. You can't look at Valkorion and what he's become and say, "this guy is a Sith Lord" anymore.
2. Preclude inferiority to*
3. Good.
4. Given that you just stated that you don't cling to the DESB quote, which quotes are you clinging to, exactly?
5. Not needing 8k Sith and 14 centuries to gain his power isn't what we're discussing. Valkorion one shotting Revan (on a nexus admittedly) long before his prime, easily destroying the Jedi strike team while caging Vaylin's power and not trying to kill them, one shotting Arcann, quickly defeating Arcann again while weakened (and in the process the outer effects of his attack were downing ships, killing hundreds of people, creating lightning storms across the sky, etc) one shotting the Hero, stomping the Hero again, etc are more impressive than stalemating Yoda, stalemating talzin, destroying maul and oppress, destroying the B Team, losing to Windu, stomping An unbalanced Luke on a dark side nexus, getting stomped by Luke, etc. and Valkorion's power as a spirit > any haxx Sidious can bring to the table.
Originally posted by Sinious
This is actually a good point tho:
Tempest did cleverly deflect it with humor. But that there are specific contradictions in a sourcebook doesn't mean that everything in it should be unconditionally discarded; otherwise we ought discard the movie novelizations because they all clash with the films in multiple locales.