How powerful will HOT become?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Tempest did cleverly deflect it with humor. But that there are specific contradictions in a sourcebook doesn't mean that everything in it should be unconditionally discarded; otherwise we ought discard the movie novelizations because they all clash with the films in multiple locales.

Originally posted by Sinious
Yes, and what do we do instead? We only eliminate the parts that contradict with what actually happens like you said. So I'd imagine doing the same with codex entries would be the only logical line of thinking by your own admittance, which clearly leads to Valkorion is not a Sith. Not that I think codex entries are comparable to novels lol

OK, so it's a question now of whether you trust Valkorion's word or the codex's. Isn't the codex third-person temporal omniscient?

In either case, sooner or later that error will be corrected, and then the Sidious supporters will have to fall back on some other fail safes.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Which changes my point...how, exactly?

Critiquing irrelevant semantics to mask your lack of insight, I see. Will be sure to adjust your position in my tier list. 😖hifty:

Originally posted by The Ellimist
OK, so it's a question now of whether you trust Valkorion's word or the codex's. Isn't the codex third-person temporal omniscient?

In either case, sooner or later that error will be corrected, and then the Sidious supporters will have to fall back on some other fail safes.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Much like me bringing up how ****ing amazing being on cloud nine is, your point isn't relevant at all. Codex entries aren't comparable to a sourcebook. Like in the slightest.

Almost finished! You've made your assertion - now you need something called a "justification" to demonstrate its validity.

For example: "smoking cigarettes is a bad idea because it increases your chance of heart cancer."

^ red is where the justification is

Your opinion of me is as irrelevant as pretty much everything else you've ever said. Who actually cares? [/B]

I suppose my noticing that you lack intelligence isn't super important unto itself, true.

We saw how melee favored Arcann. Any contest between Sidious and Valkorion will be settled in the Force. Valkorion's superior defenses, lightning, telepathy, sorcery and similar level of TK point to his victory.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Neph ruins it by saying something retarded.

Nah.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Tell me! Why would a true Sith Lord perceive Sith teachings as archaic and go to extreme lengths to establish a new Empire and philosophy? Sith tend to believe that their philosophy is a pathway towards unparalleled power. Yet, Valkorion felt otherwise.

The above makes no-sense from even strictly storytelling purpose. Valkorion's offspring are not Sith either; they understand the Force in a different manner.

Satele Shan reveals that the Jedi failed to subdue Valkorion's offspring because their philosophy and standards were not up to the task.

A codex entry does not covers everything; it represents a small piece of history of a character.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Almost finished! You've made your assertion - now you need something called a "justification" to demonstrate its validity.

For example: "smoking cigarettes is a bad idea because it increases your chance of heart cancer."

^ red is where the justification is

I suppose my noticing that you lack intelligence isn't super important unto itself, true.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's amazing. That still does not make a your opinion on sourcebooks remotely relevant pertaining codex entries.

😐

You did not understand a word you just quoted, did you?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The Son is the dark side. There's a difference.

The Son is a Force-wielder.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
But Sidious has murdered planets...

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Valkorion died before Palpatine did. Concession accepted.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
😐

You did not understand a word you just quoted, did you?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm going to put this in words even someone as dense as you apparently are can understand. Your. Justification. Is. Not. Relevant. To. Anything. I don't care why you posted something, it doesn't pertain to this situation. I.e. the codex is wrong about Valkorion, and it is stressed more and more as the game goes on. Therefore, the codex saying Valkorion is a "Sith entity" is more about context than his actual beliefs. Therefore Tempest's line of logic is wrong. Your line of logic about accepting materials until some encyclopaedia is produced is wrong. Everything you've said since this conversation began is wrong, and your continuing to have posting privileges is wrong.

Your lack of reading comprehension is making my head hurt. My post was not about my justification for things, it was an intentionally condescending request for your justification for your claim that the codex is less reliable than a sourcebook. Your current assertion, that we should take the word of Valkorion over the codex, is another that requires justification.

I will wait, but keep making me feel smart via contrast.

It's not just the word of Valkorion, anyways.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, it really isn't. Codex says Nox is a Dark Council member, and since the codex says it, it must be true, even if it's long before current events. You know this, Tempest. You're using the same argument yourself a few posts up.

That was for Neph, I was on my phone at the time and didn't quote him. But you're welcome to show me the inaccurate codex entry for Nox.

Skillz
1. Which is contradicted at least 3-4 times by the actual game. You can't look at Valkorion and what he's become and say, "this guy is a Sith Lord" anymore.

No, people in the actual game say shit that contradicts the quote. Not quite the same thing.

Skillz
2. Preclude inferiority to*

👆

Skillz
3. Good.

4. Given that you just stated that you don't cling to the DESB quote, which quotes are you clinging to, exactly?

I employ many quotes, all of which you should be familiar with.

Skillz
5. Not needing 8k Sith and 14 centuries to gain his power isn't what we're discussing.

I'm well aware that you want to avoid that embarrassing fact.

Skillz
Valkorion one shotting Revan (on a nexus admittedly) long before his prime, easily destroying the Jedi strike team while caging Vaylin's power and not trying to kill them, one shotting Arcann, quickly defeating Arcann again while weakened (and in the process the outer effects of his attack were downing ships, killing hundreds of people, creating lightning storms across the sky, etc) one shotting the Hero, stomping the Hero again, etc are more impressive than stalemating Yoda, stalemating talzin, destroying maul and oppress, destroying the B Team, losing to Windu, stomping An unbalanced Luke on a dark side nexus, getting stomped by Luke, etc. and Valkorion's power as a spirit > any haxx Sidious can bring to the table.

Not really, no.

Besides which, even if that were all true, all of that is exponentially weaker than the ability to consume all of space in a Force storm. Palpatine is orders of magnitude more dangerous tbh.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, people in the actual game say shit that contradicts the quote. Not quite the same thing.

Not entirely, I mean Vitiate got so fed up with the Sith he ditched them to go start a new empire with a new way of using the Force and blackjack and hookers. Its not just an opinion, the man objectively turned his back on the Sith.

Originally posted by Sinious
As Freshest tried to explain, codex entries give you a context of things throughout the game. Valkorion spent the majority of his life as a Sith diety, and naturally can be referred to as Sith on a vague platform such as a codex entry that (as proven above) can be referring to a specific timeline in present tense, which is clearly (for anyone who is willing to stop ignoring it) the case for Valkorion. No one's saying that he was never Sith, the argument here is that he stopped being a Sith, which is different.

Do you consider Darths Bane and Tenebrous Sith?

Originally posted by Sinious
👆 I prefer holding on to Sidious' same level of power, storms, and huge advantage in melee.

Same level of power? Setting aside his vastly superior combat skill, the consistently higher caliber of his opponents, and his deep studies of the Force in "all its guises throughout the galaxy," Sheev has manipulated the Force on planetary and galactic scales and is factually capable of employing it on a cosmic scale.

He accomplished all of that in the span of a single human lifetime and without liberal external aid. He's an infinitely more impressive figure, honestly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not entirely, I mean Vitiate got so fed up with the Sith he ditched them to go start a new empire with a new way of using the Force and blackjack and hookers. Its not just an opinion, the man objectively turned his back on the Sith.

It's not the first time a Force user has become disenfranchised with current Sith philosophy, betrayed and tried to kill them all, and started his own thing.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's not the first time a Force user has become disenfranchised with current Sith philosophy, betrayed and tried to kill them all, and started his own thing.

Swing and a miss.

A better example would be: Say a sourcebook comes out that calls Rebels Maul "Darth Maul" and calls him a Sith. Would that make him a Sith despite him very clearly not being a Sith any more and him renouncing the Darth title?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Swing and a miss.

A better example would be: Say a sourcebook comes out that calls Rebels Maul "Darth Maul" and calls him a Sith. Would that make him a Sith despite him very clearly not being a Sith any more and him renouncing the Darth title?

Can't use an example that hasn't happened already, now can I? 😬

But nah, it's a perfectly valid comparison. Your objections to it are personal, not logical. Whether or not you accept it is outta my hands.

It's not because........ he made a new order of Sith.

They're still Sith.

He's a Sith.

He's Darth Bane.

😐