Originally posted by Bardock42
The OP is a complete misrepresentation of what the study (and the article discussing it not linked in the OP, but here you go) is actually about. No one gets bonus points on the SAT. What the study showed is that the SAT is not a one to one college admission ticket. They looked at test scores of those admitted to college and found that if we were to look solely at them, less blacks and Hispanics would be admitted. However, colleges never solely looked at SAT scores, and they also shouldn't, because the SAT is not a general aptitude test for everything, it tests certain aspects of education, there are many aspects it does not take into account, which college admission boards luckily do take into account.
I posted the link to this article to.
From the article:
"Lee's next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant's race is worth. She points to the first column.
African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.
She points to the second column.
“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”
The last column draws gasps.
Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission. "
So let us look at that final line. Asians have to do much better in order to win admission. Is this statement a false statement to you?
Since again, the link you posted is one I posted too, and it flat out says certain races need to do better then others in order to win admission.
So are you saying the article I posted(and you posted as some kind of evidence) is wrong? Since it's pretty clear. The term "Bonus" is in quotes because yes they don't put a "+200 for being black" on the thing.
But again the very article we both posted says certain races need to do better then others in order to win admission. It's either true or not true, is this true yes or no?
Unless your intention was to say "some races need to do better then others to win admission, but they aren't receiving literal bonus points" then okay. Nobody even said colleges only look at SAT's. Hell not everyone who goes to college even takes them. The point is if there is a system in place that makes it easier/harder to gain admission based on race..that system needs to go.
Don't get me wrong I am actually hoping you can come back and show me, show us all, that everything in that article is 100% wrong, that Asians don't need to do much better to gain admissions, etc. I look forward to your critique of this article and all the points it gets wrong.
Like I said, the study doesn't show that any race gets bonus points. What it shows is that Asians who have been admitted scored on average x more, while blacks scored x less. Now that's a data point, the conclusion that some people (and apparently you) draw from that is that Asians are punished and Blacks are supported. That presupposes that the SATs are an accurate benchmark for college admission, but like you agreed, that is not the case. There could be multiple other explanations for that discrepancy as well, perhaps the black students admitted have written better essays, or they did more extracurricular activities, or perhaps they came from much worse schools and taking those circumstances into account they did exceptionally well, or perhaps they bring a valuable perspective to the student body that is otherwise missing etc. etc.
So was the article lying or wrong when it said Asians have to do much better then other races to sometimes win admission?
Since the article, the one you also provided, does indeed say that, correct? Is it unreasonable to read this article and conclude that in some aspects..some races need to do better then others?
Since you act like it's a weird conclusion to draw, but the article actually comes out and says that. You see the answer could be "yes" without it meaning that SAT's are the only thing colleges look at. I don't care about the other criteria, what I care about is if it is factually true that when it comes to the SAT's that certain races need to do better then others?
I think you can agree that if that does happen, it's utter bullshit, right? Even if the SAT's are not the only thing looked at it. There is no place for something like that in society, correct?
Or to simplify things: Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.
That line is false, then? Or at best, is an assumption?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Where does the LA Times article claim that it is harder for Asians?
It claims this:
Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.
Okay, the phrase "try harder" isn't in there, you are right about that. But anyways, this sentence: is it true or false?
Ok, this is a little misleading. It isn't bonus points it's just a lowered bar for entry.
I'll give an example, both Kyle and Tyrone want to go to the Pym institute of technologies and robotics. Kyle and Tyrone can score identically and have the same extra curricular stuff, but because of affirmative action and laws like it a college is forced to take Tyrone or it will lose federal funding. Granted sometimes it's more tilted like women in stem have 3-1 advantage or for every one college that would accept a man, a woman would be accepted to 3.
Originally posted by Henry_Pymthe funniest thing about this was when I google image searched "Tyrone" 😐
Ok, this is a little misleading. It isn't bonus points it's just a lowered bar for entry.I'll give an example, both Kyle and Tyrone want to go to the Pym institute of technologies and robotics. Kyle and Tyrone can score identically and have the same extra curricular stuff, but because of affirmative action and laws like it a college is forced to take Tyrone or it will lose federal funding. Granted sometimes it's more tilted like women in stem have 3-1 advantage or for every one college that would accept a man, a woman would be accepted to 3.
I also think it's nonsense that colleges can lose funding if they don't take someone they are being forced to take.
Here is how affirmative action should operate: If you have a job where not a lot of blacks get hired, then you look at all the white candidates. You then look at all the black candidates that have the same exact qualifications as the leading white candidate. Thus in this scenario no matter who you hire..you aren't getting a sub par worker. Whereas it doesn't always work like that though, sometimes people more qualified for a job get passed up by someone less qualified..merely because that person is a minority. Any business should be looking to hire the most qualified person for that job...since that is kind of one of the keys to a successful business.