Originally posted by Beniboybling
However, Zannah's performance against Bane isn't proof she can deal with Ahsoka's combination of speed, agility and technical skill, of which Bane does not possess, especially considering that unlike then she has no familiarity with her opponents form.
Originally posted by EmperordmbAs I recall Neph raised sources that state he become slower, not faster in his age. Regardless Lsu demonstrated a clear speed advantage in that fight, so it's a moot point.
DOE Bane being faster than ROT Bane who moved fast enough to outmaneuver BM Raskta and throw her on the ground who is notably faster than POD Bane via increased force power and physical augmentation from the orbalisks, and POD Bane was outpacing saberstaff Kas'im who was fast enough to near blitz trainee Bane who moved faster than a room full of near Sith masters could even perceive.
And where was Bane even outpacing Kas'im? He was evidently able to drive him back with the strength of his attacks but there is no indication he held as speed advantage. Which if anything Kas'im seized with his counter-attack:
The Blademaster was unrelenting in his pressure. He seemed to wield six blades rather than two: he attacked with a peculiar rhythm designed to keep his foe off balance, coming in with one blade high and the other low at the same time, striking from opposite sides at odd and opposing angles. Bane had no option but to fall back ... and back ... and back.
Regardless, even if we were to assume Bane an order of magnitude faster than Kas'im, that doesn't put him on level with Ahsoka. Who has matched the speed of Vader, who in turn before his prime was described as moving "almost as one" with Darth Sidious, who in turn would blitz the likes of Kas'im in seconds.
Except this includes basically every move of lightsaber combat. And Bane did indeed train Zannah to recognize and defend against the various forms of lightsaber combat.Actually Kas'im is stated to have held back several techniques.
Regardless that's not the point, the point is Bane was only able to respond to his moves because he was largely familiar with how Kas'im employed them (and let's not pretend the seven styles have remained static for over a 1,000 years, or ignore that Ahsoka wields the same Jar'Kai style that he omitted to instruct Bane in) not because of sheer skill, and when that advantage was removed he was utterly outclassed.
This is not proof of skill, its proof of familiarity with how Kas'im fought and inferiority to a duelist of stellar ability. Though frankly the real reason he had any advantage at all was because of his significant Force advantage, which prior to abusing, he's was barely holding Kas'im back.
Altogether it in no way proves superiority or even parity with Ahsoka's skill.
Anakin is a better dueling instructor than Kas'im? How? Not only does Kas'im have a considerably wider array of lightsaber knowledge to teach from, but he also basically does so for a living while Anakin literally started off teaching with Ahsoka.Because he's the more accomplished swordsman? Talent he can pass on to his student? Granted Kas'im is aware of more styles but that doesn't necessarily make him better when Anakin can instruct in a few styles to a better degree.
And frankly Anakin's inexperience as a teacher doesn't preclude him being excellent at it, especially considering he's a practical genius, and Ahsoka had nothing but praise for him.
Bane is one of the most skilled and highly trained Sith in galactic history :/According to what source or is this just your opinion? Because if it is I don't share it.
Kas'im could've near instantly stomped Trainee Bane who had already saber soloed a dozen Tuk'ata while weakened by hunger and exhaustion and who stomped Sirak, a high level master of multiple forms and otherwise the greatest duelist in an academy where the weakest student is still more powerful than an entire division of soldiers and substantially above the Sith marauders who are capable of curbstomping Jedi Padawans. POD Bane, who is far beneath Bane's peak as a duelist, drove Kas'im into a desperate retreat.Rather a wasted effort there considering Bane is an inferior duellist to the pair of them. He was only able to drive them back because of his significant Force advantage (and against Lsu the nigh invulnerability of his orbalisks), not because of his skill.Raskta Lsu has carved through enough Sith Lords at once to leave a litter of bodies in her wake and is regarded as the most skilled martial artist in the entire Jedi Order with a penchant for predicting the moves of her opponents and allies and for hand to hand combat, and Bane outmaneuvered her while she was augmented by battle meditation and threw her to the ground with a physical strike. Then bereft of battle meditation, Raskta with the aid of Farfalla and Johun were being driven back by Bane.
Bane can most certainly match Ahsoka's performance against Vader.That's beside the point? Not only was I discussing Maul but we are talking about Ahsoka's merits as a duellist here, not how well she performed against Vader (or Maul), and whether or not Bane can replicate that.
And if Zannah can escape out from under the full fury of Bane's assault even after falling on her back, then she can at the very very least hold out against Ahsoka long enough in a duel to bring her sorcery to bare.We're also discussing sabers only, keep up dear. 😉
You do realize that Ahsoka would've had the same advantage against Vader right? There's even a quote confirming so.Your point being?
Regardless considering Vader retooled his fighting style to accommodate for his suit whereas Ahsoka merely built on her's, and considering Anakin taught Ahsoka and not the other way around, any advantage is going to go to him in that regard. Which has also been confirmed.
Where does this argument about Ahsoka's technical skill come from?"Bane has nothing on contending equally with [Darth Maul] one of the most skilled and highly trained Sith in galactic history, despite having a Force augmentative disadvantage."
Bane is a high level master of Djem So, Juyo, and SoresuSo are a lot of people.
and was capable to adapting to nearly any form or combination of forms possible by even the point of PODWhich is very nice, but how are his defensive capabilities relevant when we are discussing his offensive ability to press Zannah?
and even prior to his training with Kas'im he practiced his moves to the point of flawless repetition every time.Wonderful, but perfection in application does not follow on from perfection in practice, not does it speak of the number or complexity of techniques he has mastered.
Altogether, how does any of this prove his is on level with Maul?
What details are there on Ahsoka's technical skill and the advancement of her technique that's apparently just too much for Zannah to adapt to?That's the wrong question. Rather what evidence is there that suggests Zannah can defend indefinitely against someone at least equal to Darth Maul in skill?
You mean the duel with Sarro that was long before Zannah's peak? Zannah's training was nowhere near complete, she was facing one of the greatest duelists in the galaxy augmented by potent battle meditation and who had spent the past two or three decades obsessively refining his skills as a duelist to perfection, and Zannah was already basically in a corner when their 1v1 began so she had no room to retreat which would otherwise be an invaluable asset for somebody on the defensive.Right, but you'll notice I never stated Ahsoka could perform as well as Xaj, merely pointed out a precedent for Zannah being overwhelmed by someone possessing sufficiently superior skill. Regardless do you have a source for that or is it an assumption? Zannah's form is already stated to be near-perfect defensively as of RoT, doesn't seem much room for improvement
Zannah has already demonstrated the capacity to defend against an assault from every conceivable angle with ease, Bane was attacking from more angles than just a straight brute force offensive, and the logistics of Zannah's fighting style are perfectly suited for countering an omnidirectional assault.Uh-huh, I'm sure that Bane attacked her from as many angles as he was able. But the fact remains his range of options would have been limited by his frontal assault.
So unless Bane attacked from above, behind and side to side, this assertion she can defend against every conceivable angle with ease is false. Not that I ever denied she's well suited to an omni-direction assault in general, just that it will be more taxing.