Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Beni. God damn lol remind me not to debate ahsoka with you.
Nope.
Originally posted by Aurbere
This is nothing. He's gone on far longer against other people. And more aggressively too.
I know, I debated Aurra Vs Savage with him. I respect him.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm sure you'd never find yourself on the wrong side of the debate, Fated. 🙂
Not with Ahsoka 😉
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I'll keep him in check. 🙂
Pfffff you may certainly try.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceTOR is TOR. He is a demon of your own creation, you must renounce TOR, you must renounce Valkorion and embrace the PT if he is to be defeated, there is no other way. 🙂
Who cares about wanking KotFE? He wrote out six actual pages about why Bastila was as powerful as Count Dooku.
TOR doesn't even have anything to do with this discussion, despite him trying to argue with it constantly.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Say whaaaa..
Originally posted by Beniboybling
As I recall Neph raised sources that state he become slower, not faster in his age.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless Lsu demonstrated a clear speed advantage in that fight, so it's a moot point.
And on the topic of BM Raskta, she levied half a dozen strikes in less time than it took Bane to cross less than two meters of distance while Bane was running fast enough to blitz an unamped Farfalla from an even greater distance. That's striking speed honestly beyond even Grievous.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And where was Bane even outpacing Kas'im? He was evidently able to drive him back with the strength of his attacks but there is no indication he held as speed advantage. Which if anything Kas'im seized with his counter-attack:The Blademaster was unrelenting in his pressure. He seemed to wield six blades rather than two: he attacked with a peculiar rhythm designed to keep his foe off balance, coming in with one blade high and the other low at the same time, striking from opposite sides at odd and opposing angles. Bane had no option but to fall back ... and back ... and back.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless, even if we were to assume Bane an order of magnitude faster than Kas'im, that doesn't put him on level with Ahsoka. Who has matched the speed of Vader, who in turn before his prime was described as moving "almost as one" with Darth Sidious, who in turn would blitz the likes of Kas'im in seconds.
You mean the mission where Sidious was holding back the whole time?
Vader looked from his Master to the dark mouth of the mine inside of which Drua and the rest of the villagers had fled. He felt the Emperor's eyes on him, the intensity of the gaze, the weight of his expectations, and Vader knew that the day's events had been only half about depleting a rebel movement before it could grow. They had also, as Vader had suspected, been about testing him, forcing him to face the ghosts of his past and exorcise them forever and fully. He saw that more clearly now; saw, too, that his Master was right to administer the test. It also explained why his Master had shown so little of his true power throughout the day. Perhaps he'd wanted Vader to rely on himself to overcome the challenges they'd faced. Or perhaps he'd wanted to seem weaker than he was, to draw out any treacherous ambitions Vader may have held.
-- Lords Of The Sith
If this is what your argument regarding Ahsoka and Vader's speed hinges upon, then Ahsoka's speed really doesn't measure up to DOE Bane's.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Actually Kas'im is stated to have held back several techniques.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless that's not the point, the point is Bane was only able to respond to his moves because he was largely familiar with how Kas'im employed them (and let's not pretend the seven styles have remained static for over a 1,000 years, or ignore that Ahsoka wields the same Jar'Kai style that he omitted to instruct Bane in) not because of sheer skill, and when that advantage was removed he was utterly outclassed.
And I don't see what you mean by "that advantage." Kas'im had the same familiarity with Bane's technique, so its no surprise that Kas'im would get the edge when fighting with a form Bane's completely unfamiliar with while he has intimate familiarity with Bane's technique. You're acting like Kas'im switching to something Bane was unfamiliar with is somehow an even neutral playing field, but it's not, it's heavily skewed in Kas'im's favor.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
This is not proof of skill, its proof of familiarity with how Kas'im fought and inferiority to a duelist of stellar ability. Though frankly the real reason he had any advantage at all was because of his significant Force advantage, which prior to abusing, he's was barely holding Kas'im back.
Also, before Bane drew upon the force that deeply when Kas'im was almost overwhelming him, this was due to a speed advantage Kas'im had at that point in their fight.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because he's the more accomplished swordsman? Talent he can pass on to his student? Granted Kas'im is aware of more styles but that doesn't necessarily make him better when Anakin can instruct in a few styles to a better degree.And frankly Anakin's inexperience as a teacher doesn't preclude him being excellent at it, especially considering he's a practical genius, and Ahsoka had nothing but praise for him.
Quite frankly, I don't see the evidence for your assertion that Anakin is a better teacher.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
According to what source or is this just your opinion? Because if it is I don't share it.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Rather a wasted effort there considering Bane is an inferior duellist to the pair of them. He was only able to drive them back because of his significant Force advantage (and against Lsu the nigh invulnerability of his orbalisks), not because of his skill.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's beside the point? Not only was I discussing Maul but we are talking about Ahsoka's merits as a duellist here, not how well she performed against Vader (or Maul), and whether or not Bane can replicate that.
And regardless of orbalisk armor, when Zannah fell on her back, Bane was free to go on an all-out offensive against her since she was in no position to counter attack, and despite this Zannah was able to get out from under this offensive. With that in mind I definitely think she could defend against whatever offensive Ahsoka could muster.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
We're also discussing sabers only, keep up dear. 😉
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your point being?Regardless considering Vader retooled his fighting style to accommodate for his suit whereas Ahsoka merely built on her's, and considering Anakin taught Ahsoka and not the other way around, any advantage is going to go to him in that regard. Which has also been confirmed.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
"Bane has nothing on contending equally with [Darth Maul] one of the most skilled and highly trained Sith in galactic history, despite having a Force augmentative disadvantage."
Originally posted by Beniboybling
So are a lot of people. Which is very nice, but how are his defensive capabilities relevant when we are discussing his offensive ability to press Zannah?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Wonderful, but perfection in application does not follow on from perfection in practice, not does it speak of the number or complexity of techniques he has mastered. Altogether, how does any of this prove his is on level with Maul?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's the wrong question. Rather what evidence is there that suggests Zannah can defend indefinitely against someone at least equal to Darth Maul in skill?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, but you'll notice I never stated Ahsoka could perform as well as Xaj, merely pointed out a precedent for Zannah being overwhelmed by someone possessing sufficiently superior skill.
If this is just a general truth for any duelists, its self evident logic and I'm not sure what the point of you bringing up the Tython fight is.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless do you have a source for that or is it an assumption?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Zannah's form is already stated to be near-perfect defensively as of RoT, doesn't seem much room for improvement
You aren't seriously suggesting Zannah didn't improve much as a duelist between ROT and DOE are you?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uh-huh, I'm sure that Bane attacked her from as many angles as he was able. But the fact remains his range of options would have been limited by his frontal assault.So unless Bane attacked from above, behind and side to side, this assertion she can defend against every conceivable angle with ease is false. Not that I ever denied she's well suited to an omni-direction assault in general, just that it will be more taxing.
Giving in to his orbalisk-fueled bloodrage, he was like a wild animal, raining savage blows down on her from all angles, the strikes coming so fast it seemed as if he wielded a dozen blades at the same time.
-Rule of Two
In contrast, the big man attacked her from creative and unexpected angles, the massive blue blades changing course midthrust.
-Rule of Two
His fury allowed him to call upon the dark side, making him even more dangerous as he unleashed his next series of attacks. Leaping high in the air, crouching low to the ground, lunging forward, springing back, spinning, twisting, and twirling, he came at her from every conceivable angle in a relentless barrage meant to overwhelm her defenses, only to have Zannah turn his efforts back with a cool, almost casual, efficiency.
-Dynasty of Evil
He opened with a series of two-handed overhead chops, using his great height to bring his blade hacking down at her from above.
-Dynasty of Evil
Bane circled wide trying to come in on her left flank. Zannah simply altered the angle of her retreat, taking several more steps backward to keep him at a safe distance as she swatted away a few token slashes and strikes.
-Dynasty of Evil
So yeah, Zannah has demonstrated herself to be capable of handling multi-angular offensives, her fighting style is optimized for handling multi-angular offensives, and if Ahsoka uses her agility to attack Zannah from a different side, it would take Zannah less time to make the far more minimal movement of pivoting to meet Ahsoka, which Zannah could easily do since the Book of Sith confirms her fighting style places emphasis on footwork, and when she's demonstrated speed enough with her footwork to dodge several blasts of lightning in quick succession while charging forwards.