Originally posted by wakkawakkawakkaShe sent out a letter to the Vale ordering Littlefinger to bring the army a couple of episodes ago. She knew they were coming. She went to him as a last resort though, which suggests that she doesn't trust him, but is willing to use him as a means to an end. Plus, he's always bad a blind spot when it came to her or Cat. And the conversation they made made sense to me. She used Rickon to get Jon into the fight by saying they have to him back. Then the next morning she just switches tune and says he's already dead? That doesn't add up. It looks a whole lot like she's baiting Jon and his army into being bait for Ramsay. If she had told Jon, he would have waited. There's no way he'd sacrifice his men as bait like she did. A bigger army would have led to a long siege and they wouldn't have won. All the signs point to it being Sansas plan, and a smarter Sansa is something they've been building towards for seasons now. I'm glad we finally got it.
Idk, giving all the glory to Sansa may be giving her too much credit considering the tone of the conversation that she had with Jon the night before. Though considering how conveniently the Vale showed up I'm not sure if that was actually Sansa or just the plot throwing the Starks a bone for once. Also in regards to Littlefinger wouldn't this imply that Sansa still kind of trusts him which doesn't bode well for things to come.On a slightly unrelated note I didn't appreciate Dany talking crap about Tywin on Father's Day...or any day for that matter.
And yeah, Tywin would put a stop to her chit the second she showed in KL if he was still around. She's lucky he isn't IMO
Originally posted by Inhuman
I don't think they would change their whole story just to thwart smug fans that figured it all out already.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
A bigger army would have led to a long siege and they wouldn't have won.
No it wouldn't. Ramsay under a siege is still the same psychopath. In any sort of pressured situation, the Houses loyal to him would turn tail quickly. Sieges are brutal and Winter is Coming.
Then again the North is second to Dorne in terms of shittiest places to live in Westeros since the entire populace is composed of traitorous assholes who are fine with kinslaying and the Red Wedding. This show is shitty enough to make them really loyal to Ramsay for no reason before, no reason not to do it again.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
She sent out a letter to the Vale ordering Littlefinger to bring the army a couple of episodes ago. She knew they were coming. She went to him as a last resort though, which suggests that she doesn't trust him, but is willing to use him as a means to an end. Plus, he's always bad a blind spot when it came to her or Cat. And the conversation they made made sense to me. She used Rickon to get Jon into the fight by saying they have to him back. Then the next morning she just switches tune and says he's already dead? That doesn't add up. It looks a whole lot like she's baiting Jon and his army into being bait for Ramsay. If she had told Jon, he would have waited. There's no way he'd sacrifice his men as bait like she did. A bigger army would have led to a long siege and they wouldn't have won. All the signs point to it being Sansas plan, and a smarter Sansa is something they've been building towards for seasons now. I'm glad we finally got it.And yeah, Tywin would put a stop to her chit the second she showed in KL if he was still around. She's lucky he isn't IMO
The letter that Sansa sent makes sense but the timing of the Vale showing up is a bit too convenient for my taste considering how the battle was turning out. I mean would they have still given that decisive support had Jon actually followed through with his original plan instead of being bait for Ramsay for "Bastard Bowl"? Well I guess its just a bit weird to see competent Sansa after mostly 5 seasons of her being inept. Also I don't fault Sansa for the Rickon situation as both her and Jon should've realized that he was done for considering his position.
With that said I'll take Smart Sansa over Dany's recent exploits.
Originally posted by MF DELPHctfu. I watched this with 6 other people and when arrows started flying, literally all of us yelled out "zig-zag, *****"
I had no real issues with this episode. This was the action episode with big pops and it paid off a bunch of threads that were established. My only gripe, if anything, is at how stupid Rickon was to run in a f*ckin straight line while being shot at by Ramsay. Serpentine, muthaf*cka.
Originally posted by AuraAngelYes, it would. Psychopath doesn't mean stupid. Ramsay has shown that he has a good head for tactics. He even almost resorted to a siege at the end of the episode the second the things went south (too little too late though). The Karstarks hate the Starks for killing their Lord, and the Umbers can't switch sides because they got Rickon killed. Ramsays alliances were very secure. If he thought Jon had any kind of real chance in numbers, a siege is definitely what he would have resorted to and they would have easily lasted until winter by which Jon and his forces would freeze and die or Ramsay would get reinforcements as Warden of the North. I'd also argue there is more pressure in a direct battle than there is a siege.
No it wouldn't. Ramsay under a siege is still the same psychopath. In any sort of pressured situation, the Houses loyal to him would turn tail quickly. Sieges are brutal and Winter is Coming.Then again the North is second to Dorne in terms of shittiest places to live in Westeros since the entire populace is composed of traitorous assholes who are fine with kinslaying and the Red Wedding. This show is shitty enough to make them really loyal to Ramsay for no reason before, no reason not to do it again.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakkaYeah, agreed on all points. Now that you mention it, she did show up with reinforcements kind of conveniently. I'll just chalk that up to typical drama though. Same thing happened for Tyrion on the Blackwater, and Jon against the Wildlings, so they have a history of that BS.
The letter that Sansa sent makes sense but the timing of the Vale showing up is a bit too convenient for my taste considering how the battle was turning out. I mean would they have still given that decisive support had Jon actually followed through with his original plan instead of being bait for Ramsay for "Bastard Bowl"? Well I guess its just a bit weird to see competent Sansa after mostly 5 seasons of her being inept. Also I don't fault Sansa for the Rickon situation as both her and Jon should've realized that he was done for considering his position.With that said I'll take Smart Sansa over Dany's recent exploits.
One of the best episodes of the show! Satisfactory outcomes of 2 distinct story-arcs after a long time.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
It would have failed if she did let Jon in on the secret. Basically, if she revealed and waited for the full army to arrive, Ramsay would have been more careful about how they waged war, and it likely would have led to a year long siege that lasted well into winter. She used Jon and his army to bait out Ramsay and his forces so she could bring the Vale in to phuck them in the ass from behind. She finally started learning how to play the game, and it resulted in the extinction of a great house and the reinstatement of House Stark as the dominant power in the North.She did absolutely phenomenal, and this win went to her more than anyone else IMO. Plus, those amazing one liners she dropped all episode and the ending scene with Ramsay were absolutely epic. Sansa was great this episode.
Originally posted by MindsetI think there's still an issue of trust between Jon and Sansa that will be covered in the next ep. In general, just about everyone Sansa trusted has stabbed her in the back or fuked her in some way sometimes literally (Ramsey). She may have developed trust issues and is keeping her cards closer to her chest.
I don't get why Sansa didn't tell Jon about the reinforcements.