Most influential characters in the mythos

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's an empire and it's galactic. /story

They're not an empire at all. The Sith [b]Empire was and is galactic in scale. The Eternal Empire was and is galactic in scale. /story

😬 I don't have to prove shit. Are you actually suggesting they didn't unearth a ton of knowledge over that time? That the Sith didn't destabilise the Republic? That Sidious didn't benefit from the Sith's carefully maintained secrecy? Don't be an ass.

You don't have to remind me that, but that fact is that Valkorion created civilisations that lasted for over a millennium, his influence was far more broad and long-lasting. Sidious' lasted 2 decades. And who started the Jedi Civil War? Oh thats right it was Vitiate. And who started the Mandalorian Wars? Oh thats right it was Vitiate. Who started the Great Galactic War? Oh thats right it was Vitiate. Who started the Zakuul Invasion. Oh thats right it was Vitiate. Who banged Senya? Oh thats right it was Vitiate. Sheev didn't annihilate jack, they came back and pushed his shit in inside of a generation. Vitiate shaped 3 galactic civilisations for over a thousand years. Get rekt Shitious.

Both were merely revitalizations of the old groups, created directly from the surviving remnants of them. [/B]

You do have to prove shit when you make a claim. You've never been much good at it, but that is how debates work. Make your case. 👆

The fact that Sheev managed to rule the Galaxy and destroy the Jedi and the Republic while developing the two largest armies in history up til that time in a fraction of the time is only further proof of his superiority over Valkoriate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Perhaps it'd be for the best if you died and let SKILLZ or Sinious replace you. They put way more effort into their wankery.

In the time it took you to quote a guy who has even less respect for you than I do in a clumsy attempt to save face, you could have actually been proving your claim.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And you're reaching. But you tend to do that when you don't have a leg to stand on. Perhaps it'd be for the best if you died and let SKILLZ or Sinious replace you. They put way more effort into their wankery.

Your anger is pleasing, but you shouldn't be upset at me calling you out on your double standards. You've been hanging out with Neph and Legend for too long.

You're starting to also develop their sensitivity, too. Shameful.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
In the time it took you to quote a guy who has even less respect for you than I do in a clumsy attempt to save face, you could have actually been proving your claim.

I realised there was no point in putting the slightest bit of effort into my response when you're not going to extend me the same courtesy.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
In the time it took you to quote a guy who has even less respect for you than I do in a clumsy attempt to save face, you could have actually been proving your claim.

Your anger is pleasing, but you shouldn't be upset at me calling you out on your double standards. You've been hanging out with Neph and Legend for too long.

You're starting to also develop their sensitivity, too. Shameful.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Double standards? Please. And don't lump me with either of those two. I don't see a brand name and like something. I give all a fair chance. Otherwise, I wouldn't even be having this conversation.

You reek of their foul stench. Cleanse yourself. And do it soon.

Tbf Tempest may be conflating more impressive with more influential.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You reek of their foul stench. Cleanse yourself. And do it soon.

One of us, one of us!

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Tbf Tempest may be conflating more impressive with more influential.

Nah. It just so happens that Sheev nabs both trophies.

Sheev orchestrated the biggest war in galactic history, arranged for the ascent of both belligerents (the two largest militaries in history at the time), and destroyed the Jedi and the Republic. He ruled the Galaxy from the head of history's most powerful regime. He threatened the balance of the Force in an unprecedented way. Then he subjugated the Galaxy a second time after his reincarnation. And he accomplished all that in the span of a human lifetime. That's significantly greater than what Valkorion achieved tbh.

Neph's claims that Sheev benefitted from a thousand years of the Rule of Two have yet to be proven.

Originally posted by Nephthys
One of us, one of us!

No, I'm proud of Vriska. estahuh

She's entered the Pantheon of Heroes who have Saved Anime, alongside Satsuki Kiryuin and Saitama.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
A grown ass man dressing up as a teenaged girl

Neph would often attempt to parlay these fetishes into our sex life.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah. It just so happens that Sheev nabs both trophies.

Sheev orchestrated the biggest war in galactic history, arranged for the ascent of both belligerents (the two largest militaries in history at the time), and destroyed the Jedi and the Republic. He ruled the Galaxy from the head of history's most powerful regime. He threatened the balance of the Force in an unprecedented way. Then he subjugated the Galaxy a second time after his reincarnation. And he accomplished all that in the span of a human lifetime. That's significantly greater than what Valkorion achieved tbh.

Neph's claims that Sheev benefitted from a thousand years of the Rule of Two have yet to be proven.

From the perspective purely of aggregate influence, one could argue that ruling an empire a quarter the size of Palpatine's for seventy times longer affected more people's lives, even if getting said empire by building it in secret in the outer rim while hiding from the Republic was easier to do.

Also Legends Palpatine has no first name, show some respect.

TBF she is 7, so she isn't that young.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Um...

Luke
Sheev
Valkorion
Revan
Ajunta Pall and his Jedi
That dude that lead the Legion of the first Dark Siders.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I realised there was no point in putting the slightest bit of effort into my response when you're not going to extend me the same courtesy.

Err... what?

You made a claim, Sheev was the beneficiary of a thousand years' effort and planning by his predecessors, and didn't prove it. When you were asked to prove it, your response was "I don't have to prove shit."

I evinced no such behavior.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
From the perspective purely of aggregate influence, one could argue that ruling an empire a quarter the size of Palpatine's for seventy times longer affected more people's lives, even if getting said empire by building it in secret in the outer rim while hiding from the Republic was easier to do.

Also Legends Palpatine has no first name, show some respect.

Depends on their populations, but I doubt it.

Comparing Valky to the Emperor is, per usual, not flattering to Valky. Vitiate cobbled his empire together across a thousand years in secret from the remnants of the Sith empire that preceded it. He was able to exert direct influence over affairs for a thousand years. After that, he was only ever able to manage a stalemate with the Jedi and the Republic. Even under his most recent iteration, he simply hijacked the extant Eternal fleet and siphoned the rest from the Sith. And was, again, ultimately unable to topple either the Jedi or the Republic.

Contrast that with the Emperor. In Legends, the Banite Sith got exactly nowhere with respect to conquering the Republic, destroying the Jedi, and ruling the galaxy until Sheev showed up. In the span of a single human lifetime, he ticked all three boxes. Various source material lovingly describes how he micromanaged his entire rise to power. Dude had a direct hand in not just macro events like the Stark Hyperspace War and the Clone Wars – which he orchestrated, whereas Valky merely instigated the Mandalorian Wars and Jedi Civil War – but he was also personally involved on relatively micro events like the rise of the Trade Federation, Poggle the Lesser, the conversion of Dooku, etc. The degree to which Palpatine was personally involved with the geopolitical affairs of his lifetime is quite honestly mindboggling, given all the other shit he had to juggle.

In the end, one toppled the Republic, destroyed the Jedi, and ruled the galaxy for 20 years before more or less conquering it a second time in Dark Empire. All of which took 30+ years. {This excludes the cosmological effect he had on the Force.} He's also name-dropped more often than any other character in any chronology or essential guide published that includes his lifetime.

The other guy accomplished absolutely nothing, died in obscurity, and is a footnote in any chronology since then. And he had 14 centuries to do it. All Valky did was lovingly refine the art of failure.

Depends on their populations

Well I'm assuming that it was at least within an order of magnitude of the Republic's, and that galactic populations have remained relatively stable (by precedent most first world countries are expected to or have already more or less stabilized their populations). Also granted, the Empire controlled more worlds than the Republic, and the PT Republic does seem to have a far more complete hold over the galaxy than its ancient version.

Even then proportional impact might have more utility in the long term, since killing X number of people also wipes out their progeny.

Comparing Valky to the Emperor is, per usual, not flattering to Valky.

Yes, but here Valky's cowardice might benefit him, as would the relative weakness of his enemies.

Vitiate cobbled his empire together across a thousand years in secret from the remnants of the Sith empire that preceded it. He was able to exert direct influence over affairs for a thousand years. After that, he was only ever able to manage a stalemate with the Jedi and the Republic. Even under his most recent iteration, he simply hijacked the extant Eternal fleet and siphoned the rest from the Sith. And was, again, ultimately unable to topple either the Jedi or the Republic.

Contrast that with the Emperor. In Legends, the Banite Sith got exactly nowhere with respect to conquering the Republic, destroying the Jedi, and ruling the galaxy until Sheev showed up. In the span of a single human lifetime, he ticked all three boxes. Various source material lovingly describes how he micromanaged his entire rise to power. Dude had a direct hand in not just macro events like the Stark Hyperspace War and the Clone Wars – which he orchestrated, whereas Valky merely instigated the Mandalorian Wars and Jedi Civil War – but he was also personally involved on relatively micro events like the rise of the Trade Federation, Poggle the Lesser, the conversion of Dooku, etc. The degree to which Palpatine was personally involved with the geopolitical affairs of his lifetime is quite honestly mindboggling, given all the other shit he had to juggle.

In the end, one toppled the Republic, destroyed the Jedi, and ruled the galaxy for 20 years before more or less conquering it a second time in Dark Empire. All of which took 30+ years. {This excludes the cosmological effect he had on the Force.} He's also name-dropped more often than any other character in any chronology or essential guide published that includes his lifetime.

Sure, Palpatine is a more impressive figure than Valky, as he is more powerful, more handsome, more intelligent, etc. But Valky arguably affected a greater percentage of the galactic population's lives.

The other guy accomplished absolutely nothing, died in obscurity, and is a footnote in any chronology since then. And he had 14 centuries to do it. All Valky did was lovingly refine the art of failure.

Even failing in such an epic fashion influenced lots of people, like breaking and wiping out the Sith.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Even failing in such an epic fashion influenced lots of people, like breaking and wiping out the Sith.

mmm

I honestly never considered the possibility that Valky being a grotesque monument to failure might have, in the long run, lent itself to significant influence.

Perhaps Sheev read his book:

Given that the EU no longer has any continuity regulation of note, there's nothing stopping Bioware from making a DLC where Valkorion survives his death and travels forward in time, eventually birthing himself in the form of a young human male named Palpatine. mmm

It's not like Valky's fans would recognize stupid plotlines when they see them.