Most influential characters in the mythos

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Err... what?

You made a claim, Sheev was the beneficiary of a thousand years' effort and planning by his predecessors, and didn't prove it. When you were asked to prove it, your response was "I don't have to prove shit."

I evinced no such behavior.

Depends on their populations, but I doubt it.

Comparing Valky to the Emperor is, per usual, not flattering to Valky. Vitiate cobbled his empire together across a thousand years in secret from the remnants of the Sith empire that preceded it. He was able to exert direct influence over affairs for a thousand years. After that, he was only ever able to manage a stalemate with the Jedi and the Republic. Even under his most recent iteration, he simply hijacked the extant Eternal fleet and siphoned the rest from the Sith. And was, again, ultimately unable to topple either the Jedi or the Republic.

Contrast that with the Emperor. In Legends, the Banite Sith got exactly nowhere with respect to conquering the Republic, destroying the Jedi, and ruling the galaxy until Sheev showed up. In the span of a single human lifetime, he ticked all three boxes. Various source material lovingly describes how he micromanaged his entire rise to power. Dude had a direct hand in not just macro events like the Stark Hyperspace War and the Clone Wars – which he orchestrated, whereas Valky merely instigated the Mandalorian Wars and Jedi Civil War – but he was also personally involved on relatively micro events like the rise of the Trade Federation, Poggle the Lesser, the conversion of Dooku, etc. The degree to which Palpatine was personally involved with the geopolitical affairs of his lifetime is quite honestly mindboggling, given all the other shit he had to juggle.

In the end, one toppled the Republic, destroyed the Jedi, and ruled the galaxy for 20 years before more or less conquering it a second time in Dark Empire. All of which took 30+ years. {This excludes the cosmological effect he had on the Force.} He's also name-dropped more often than any other character in any chronology or essential guide published that includes his lifetime.

The other guy accomplished absolutely nothing, died in obscurity, and is a footnote in any chronology since then. And he had 14 centuries to do it. All Valky did was lovingly refine the art of failure.

Firstly, it's not a claim, it's a fact and you asking me to prove it is bullshit and disengenuous. You know it's true (or you really are going senile in your 20's) and you're just being a dick about it.

Secondly, I wrote a whole post and you wrote 4 sentences that ignored everything I said. I know it's hard for you to engage these days but if you're not going to bother then idk why I should.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Firstly, it's not a claim, it's a fact and you asking me to prove it is bullshit and disengenuous. You know it's true (or you really are going senile in your 20's) and you're just being a dick about it.

Nah, it's a claim. And one you need to prove. Because the Banites didn't accomplish jack until Sheev joined their ranks.

That's a fact.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Secondly, I wrote a whole post and you wrote 4 sentences that ignored everything I said. I know it's hard for you to engage these days but if you're not going to bother then idk why I should.

I was on my phone at the time. The fact that I can efficiently address your post in 4 sentences without engaging in WOT posts isn't a bad thing.

I responded to Ellimist in a long post on the last page.

You honestly don't think Sidious benefited from 1000 years of RoT prep? That is an actual argument you are making for real, not pulling my leg? You are stating this for the record?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Neph would often attempt to parlay these fetishes into our sex life.

****ing wrecked.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You honestly don't think Sidious benefited from 1000 years of RoT prep? That is an actual argument you are making for real, not pulling my leg? You are stating this for the record?

What prep, Neph?

The things I mentioned, honey. Keep up.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
What prep, Neph?

Spoiler:
This is an invitation for you to actually provide examples of the otherwise "vague" prep you claim they provided.

Nephthys
Sidious also had a thousand years of RoT prep to help him.

I'll be back later. When I return, I want this claim supported. Do not fail me.

Kreia, her students were two of the most influential people in the galaxy, while she herself brought the Jedi Order to its knees, and created Darth Nihilus. 🙂

My whole problem with these kind of thoughts is it just goes back and back. Yes, Sidious had a huge influence but where would he have been without Plagueis? Bu then where would Plagueis be without Tenebrous? And is cycles back and back until we get to Ruin, the progenitor of the “New” Sith. These characters are all heavily influenced by their forebears so it’s almost always the first who is going to have the largest impact.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Spoiler:
This is an invitation for you to actually provide examples of the otherwise "vague" prep you claim they provided.

I honestly, seriously, legitimately think that the benefits of what I mentioned are so blindingly ****ing obvious and are things that you know to be true that I am honestly, seriously and legitimately insulted that you are asking me to prove it.

Plagueis had a library of knowledge that obviously benefited Sidious, Bane and Zannah collected numerous holocrons and other sources that added to the RoT line and so did other RoT Sith. We also know they performed experiments by themselves and studied the Force independently. If you actually want to provide quotes for these things that you know are true the answer is no.

As detailed in RoT, Bane established a vast collection of spies and terrorist groups designed to destabalise the Republic. Which obviously he passed down to his successors and they built off of it. The benefits of this to Sidious is so ****ing obvious its mindblowing.

How and why the **** do you want me to prove that the Sith were shrouded in secrecy and that this was a benefit to Sidious? Like, honestly? You want me to draw you a picture? Because it would just be a circle with the words "You are a retard" in the middle. Again, this is just basic common sense. I don't know what you want me to do.

FYI, this is me actually frustrated and annoyed. Take some ****ing notes.

@Ares, which is why Kreia wins. ✅

@Neph, meh, no doubt he benefit from the groundwork laid down by his forebears, but no more so than Valkorion did regarding the remants of the ancient Sith and the Eternal Fleet, however both can be largely attributed to making something of significance out of it.

Neph, I'm impressed. You performed above and beyond your abilities.

However, your conclusion is clearly invalid. It implies that Valkorion is better than someone at something. Unless if that someone is Bane or that something is sucking, you must have erred somewhere in your reasoning. Please go back and check over your work.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Given that the EU no longer has any continuity regulation of note, there's nothing stopping Bioware from making a DLC where Valkorion survives his death and travels forward in time, eventually birthing himself in the form of a young human male named Palpatine. mmm

It's not like Valky's fans would recognize stupid plotlines when they see them.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Neph, I'm impressed. You performed above and beyond your abilities.

However, your conclusion is clearly invalid. It implies that Valkorion is better than someone at something. Unless if that someone is Bane or that something is sucking, you must have erred somewhere in your reasoning. Please go back and check over your work.

I'm still w8ing for some lovemaking tbh. Honestly, I thought you'd actually be an improvement over the past but so far you're being very disappointing.

lmfao @ this thread.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm still w8ing for some lovemaking tbh. Honestly, I thought you'd actually be an improvement over the past but so far you're being very disappointing.

It's Friday so I'll do it, just for you.

Hopefully debating The Tempest has prepared you for a fraction of the knee bending you will about to perform.

😐

That was... An enormous display of emotion for such a weak delivery.

Response is forthcoming.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
What prep, Neph?

I'm not Neph, being much smarter, handsomer and more successful, but didn't Plagueis pull a lot of strings to get Palpatine elected Chancellor and connected with the future Separatist leaders in the first place? Plagueis himself leveraged a lot of connections from his master. He also worked with Palpatine to unbalance the Force towards the dark side, which can probably explain a lot of Palpatine's success in finding apprentices, shrouding the Jedi's vision, etc.

Indeed, Palpatine does owe credit to Plagueis for recruiting him and training him in the first place, while Vitiate was basically self-taught, and while he did absorb all of those Sith Lords in the Nathema ritual, it was his machinery to get them to participate in the ritual in the first place.

Aside from that, the primary benefit of those thousand years was the steady power creep from trash-tier (Bane) to >Yoda-tier (Sidious), but that's an advantage intrinsic to Palpatine's potential and so not something that can be separated from him.

Disclaimer: Vitiate still sucks