Re: Re: Re: Re: Valkoriate vs. Sheev
And I still call into question whether or not Valkorion did this entirely without a host; after all, he supposedly had a huge chunk of the planetary population under his control when the feat was performed.He says after Ziost, everything changed for him. He "passed beyond death's reach" and no longer requires vessels. So, you may be right, but since this is post-Ziost Valky, I'm not sure how that is relevant.
Doubt it. In the Inquisitor storyline it's stated numerous times that in the TOR era there are no known teachings that allow Sith to devour souls, despite drain related techniques being commonplace. You could make the argument that Vitiate knows Hord's lost arts and just hid them from everybody else, but that argument would have no basis.This, imo, depends on how the Ziost attack targets the force energy on the surface of the planet. I mean, depends on how much less force consuming it is compared to Natemha, if any.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Valkoriate vs. Sheev
Originally posted by Sinious
He says after Ziost, everything changed for him. He "passed beyond death's reach" and no longer requires vessels. So, you may be right, but since this is post-Ziost Valky, I'm not sure how that is relevant.
That doesn't prove that he doesn't need a host to unleash his full power on the material realm, that proves that he doesn't need a host to survive. He's "finally free", as he put it.
Although, that's still an extremely important accomplishment when you consider Palpatine, who can't survive indefinitely without a host. Assuming it's completely true to begin with, of course.
Originally posted by SunRazer
He was called a fanboy before, and he brushed it off. But obviously when it comes to supporting Palpatine, it's a crime. Frankly, what Elliminist and so on have done is only a reflection of some of the things that have been posted by Vitiate supporters in the past, but apparently that was alright.
It is the characters like Valkorion that are in need of better recognition. He is one of the few characters who can tackle the likes of Palpatine and Luke Skywalker head-on in a confrontation and also matches the latter's accomplishments. Unfortunately, I don't see acknowledgement of these assessments by a number of fans here even after years of hard work.
Among the fans of Palpatine, I find Sinious and Tondemonai most objective. In-fact, even EmperorSidious2 is improving; his views surprise me often but he still have a long way to go. The rest are a bunch of blind Palpatine fangirls who harbor unrealistic perceptions of Palpatine's capabilities and the list includes you.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Valkoriate vs. Sheev
Originally posted by NewGuy01
That doesn't prove that he doesn't need a host to unleash his full power on the material realm, that proves that he doesn't need a host to survive. He's "finally free", as he put it.
And fair point, though I'm not sure. There is no single mention of him needing a host on Ziost (when there are mentions of other details of his condition and what he requires to pull it off), and he seems to be capable of unleashing attacks like lightning as a spirit. Not to mention, what he can and cannot do on Ziost still don't represent his capabilities as a spirit since he has the boost of Ziost now and is more powerful overall. More importantly, he doesn't have to unleash a death field as powerful as the one on Ziost. Why wouldn't he be able to just take out the arena and everything inside where Sidious's spirit will be?
Although, that's still an extremely important accomplishment when you consider Palpatine, who can't survive indefinitely without a host. Assuming it's completely true to begin with, of course.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Valkoriate vs. Sheev
Originally posted by Sinious
Wouldn't that also make Valkorion the winner every round?
Not necessarily. If Sidious managed to destroy Valkorion's host--and if I'm correct about them not being able to fight without one--then Valkorion would have to retreat and Sidious would be the victor. The same goes for vice-versa; I strongly suspect neither would be able to permanently put down the other without significant prep.
Although, if the loser tries to possess the victor and loses the battle of wills? I wonder if that's a possible resolution.
I assume that you mean Vitiate won't be able to defeat Palpatine if he loses his body since he'll be weaker when you say "not being able to fight without one" and that's why he'd have to flee?
And yeah, I'm not sure if you're right tbh. Like I said we have other info on this but nothing stating that he needed a host to kill Ziost, and he got quite more powerful after Ziost compared to the shape he was in during RotE + he can unleash other attacks like lightning storms just fine. A critical detail would be that he can probably perform some force powers better as a spirit like flow-walking. A unique force draining attack like the one we saw on Ziost strikes me more as a force power like fwalking than powers like TK or lightning (not that he can't use those as well).
He seems to have emancipated himself from the restraints of vessels to a significant extend, not just being able to exist without a host. I'm not sure why he'd fail to unleash an attack that can consume the force energies within the arena.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Eh, Sidious obviously had the enviroment in his favor when he faced Yoda, I'm not too impressed with how he handled Luke either. Valkorion's ability to deal with Arcann, especially the second time when he was weakened, was fairly impressive, as well as his handling of Revan, two Dark Councils, and those strike teams which weren't all terrible, even if half of it was. It's not something I could never see Sidious doing, it's just something I've never seen from him.
In which sequence did Sidious have the environmental advantage? If anything, such limited area did not go well with Sidious acrobatic and aggressive fighting style. If you're referring to the lightning sequence at the end, yes it did favor Sidious; but let's say the exchange happened on neutral ground, if we take the novels take on it in regards to Yoda reaching his absorption limit, what's to say he'd be able to keep going once they both got back on their feet?
As for Luke, Sidious floored him with lightning then forced a saber duel on him. Meanwhile, Leia was unknowingly using battle meditation to guide Luke which obviously aided him in his victory. Sidious then proceeded to devour the republic fleet, intending to destroy the entire moon as a taunting display of his power. At no point did Sidious fully unleash himself on Luke. Actually The Emperor was defeated by his own arrogance rather than a true power-to-power competition, which basically was the writers way to express just how powerful Palpatine was. I don't think it was a low showing at all.