No offense, but can you make your posts a little more organized? Are you on your phone?
He doesn't need to penetrate the orbalisks; he can directly crush Bane's neck or head, his TK isn't limited by line of sight (he crushes a Jedi's heart, chokes a guy on a distant spaceship, etc.)
You still haven't produced anything for Bane that can match Vader's taking down AT-ATs and crushing distant starships, except for his own fantasies of moving a moon and his ability to destroy the foundations of a stone temple when he has a few seconds to charge his attack.
Sorry yes I'm on my phone but I'll be on my computer probs for my next post.
That's if he can penetrate an orbalisk enhanced force shield
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t435643.html
May not be reliable literally just read the first post but there you go
You still haven't produced anything to counter the "nowhere near his prime" argument that I have typed multiple times without a decent response
Same applies to lightning
You also haven't replied to me saying about how Vader doesn't go for tk victories instantly normally eg ahsoka eg ben kenobi etc etc... therefore it's logical to assume that this will go to a duel and he can't get past the orbalisks and even if he does:
"his injuries somehow healing almost instantly."
Originally posted by hutchy1345
That's if he can penetrate an orbalisk enhanced force shield
Even when amped by his orbalisks, Bane still can't overcome the Force shield of a frigging shadow assassin lol.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t435643.html
Rule of Two retconned this; he just wills the Drexyl through a few hundred kilometers of vacuum. It's an impressive feat, but it's hardly moving a moon, lol.
You still haven't produced anything to counter the "nowhere near his prime" argument that I have typed multiple times without a decent response
Same applies to lightning
I did, I pointed out that you have failed to establish any sort of relationship between charged PoD nexus Bane and uncharged prime Bane; you can't just vaguely wave your hand about "he can do better!" without explaining how much better.
Besides, we see his prime telekinesis, and it's pretty weak. We don't even need to speculate.
You also haven't replied to me saying about how Vader doesn't go for tk victories instantly normally eg ahsoka eg ben kenobi etc etc... therefore it's logical to assume that this will go to a duel and he can't get past the orbalisks and even if he does:
You can't heal injuries if you're dead. Vader doesn't go for TK victories probably because some people are powerful enough to resist him; he has ragdolled weaker opponents before. Bane is one of those weaker opponents.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Even when amped by his orbalisks, Bane still can't overcome the Force shield of a frigging shadow assassin lol.Rule of Two retconned this; he just wills the Drexyl through a few hundred kilometers of vacuum. It's an impressive feat, but it's hardly moving a moon, lol.
I did, I pointed out that you have failed to establish any sort of relationship between charged PoD nexus Bane and uncharged prime Bane; you can't just vaguely wave your hand about "he can do better!" without explaining how much better.
Besides, [b]we see his prime telekinesis
, and it's pretty weak. We don't even need to speculate.You can't heal injuries if you're dead. Vader doesn't go for TK victories probably because some people are powerful enough to resist him; he has ragdolled weaker opponents before. Bane is one of those weaker opponents. [/B]
Bane unleashes a telekinetic attack that penetrates multiple Shadow Assassins' combined Force Barrier, knocking two of them to the ground and sending two more sailing through the air - right so what was that about the shadow assassins?
Okay that's fair enough - but when palpatine muses over destroying his palace you all accept that as fact that yeah he can do that yet when Bane does the same:
"Now that he understood the depths of Sith powers, he thought he might even have control over worlds and moons, able to play with orbits and gravity like a child might play with colored balls.
Long ago, Dxun had grazed the planet Onderon, close enough that it was possible for creatures to pass across the conjoined atmosphere. Perhaps Bane could nudge the beast moon close enough so that he could travel to the nearby planet that filled the sky. In bloodshed and chaos, Darth Bane would go to Onderon... and there he would find his apprentice."
You just wave it off as if it's nothing - not fair now is it.
Prime amped by orbalisk bane >>>> little training amped POD bane - there's your relationship
No Bane is not "one of those weaker opponents" he is clearly superior to ahsoka rebels who vader can't ragdoll
Originally posted by hutchy1345
Bane unleashes a telekinetic attack that penetrates multiple Shadow Assassins' combined Force Barrier, knocking two of them to the ground and sending two more sailing through the air - right so what was that about the shadow assassins?
That one [or two?] resisted it?
Regardless, Bane hasn't really done anything with telekinesis to put him on Vader's level. He is able to unleash a big desperation wave that Starkiller could yawn out in his sleep.
Okay that's fair enough - but when palpatine muses over destroying his palace you all accept that as fact that yeah he can do that yet when Bane does the same:"Now that he understood the depths of Sith powers, he thought he might even have control over worlds and moons, able to play with orbits and gravity like a child might play with colored balls.
Because the Rule of Two novel actually tells us what happens. It mentions that there's still a vacuum between the two planets, .ie Bane didn't close it.
Prime amped by orbalisk bane >>>> little training amped POD bane - there's your relationship
">>>>" translates to > Vader, how exactly?
No Bane is not "one of those weaker opponents" he is clearly superior to ahsoka rebels who vader can't ragdoll
lol @ "clearly superior".
You're still dodging the evidence that you need to make your case; feats for Bane. His temple smashing one isn't enough, and so you just claim that he has improved enough by RoT/DoE to catch Vader, even though we can read those books and see that he still struggles against mercenaries and the most he does is break boxes and tents. Clearly charging stuff matters more than you think it does, even if only for a few seconds.
You're trying to compare him with a guy who casually crushes starfighters, and goes up against [now that you've included Legends] a guy who can TK hundreds of stormtroopers simultaneously and destroy cruisers. There's really not even the slightest comparison.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
That one [or two?] resisted it?Regardless, Bane hasn't really done anything with telekinesis to put him on Vader's level. He is able to unleash a big desperation wave that Starkiller could yawn out in his sleep.
Because the Rule of Two novel actually tells us what happens. It mentions that there's still a vacuum between the two planets, .ie Bane didn't close it.
">>>>" translates to > Vader, how exactly?
lol @ "clearly superior".
You're still dodging the evidence that you need to make your case; feats for Bane. His temple smashing one isn't enough, and so you just claim that he has improved enough by RoT/DoE to catch Vader, even though we can read those books and see that he still struggles against mercenaries and the most he does is break boxes and tents. Clearly charging stuff matters more than you think it does, even if only for a few seconds.
You're trying to compare him with a guy who casually crushes starfighters, and goes up against [now that you've included Legends] a guy who can TK hundreds of stormtroopers simultaneously and destroy cruisers. There's really not even the slightest comparison.
I've given you tk feats to put him on vader's level
Oh and palpatine destroys his palace? No he just thinks about it as does bane. Also the book says that long ago beasts could fly between the moon and the planet and then bane goes and does it (implying that he at least made the two objects closer) But nevertheless that still can't be considered a feat but my palpatine point still applies
Because Vader hasn't shown that he can he temple bust on that scale long before his prime never mind actually in his prime therefore bane > vader in tk
I'm dodging the evidence? All we've talked about is tk, something that they are evenly matched in and vader cannot outright win with, lightning and durability points I have outlined with no response and even dueling
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I think it's become clear that you and Ellimist are some of the bitchiest debaters ever, though honestly, you're the one embarrassing yourself by continuing to post. And that's not even accounting for the fact you can't write a complete sentence for shit.
Originally posted by hutchy1345
I've given you tk feats to put him on vader's level
Such as...? I look forward to these uncharged telekinetic attacks that you claim exist. Either that, or perhaps you can actually provide some sort of algorithm to translate his charged Force wave to an uncharged attack beyond your gut feeling that it must have been compensated for by his growth from PoD to DoE.
Oh and palpatine destroys his palace? No he just thinks about it as does bane.
The incredulity behind a guy who can generate fleet-busting Force storms being able to destroy a palace is a little less than that of a guy who is explicitly weaker by 30 generational power creeps being able to tug a moon out of orbit.
Also the book says that long ago beasts could fly between the moon and the planet and then bane goes and does it (implying that he at least made the two objects closer) But nevertheless that still can't be considered a feat but my palpatine point still applies
Yes, he goes ahead and does it, but the novel makes it clear that there was a vacuum between the two planets, .ie Bane's feat is somehow shielding himself from the vacuum, not moving the moon.
Because Vader hasn't shown that he can he temple bust on that scale long before his prime never mind actually in his prime therefore bane > vader in tkI'm dodging the evidence? All we've talked about is tk, something that they are evenly matched in and vader cannot outright win with, lightning and durability points I have outlined with no response and even dueling [/B]
Why do you keep overlooking the fact that he charges that Force wave? You just keep making the arbitrary assumption that it didn't really matter that much because he only did it for a few seconds - why do you think those few seconds were unimportant? We see prime Bane's uncharged telekinesis and it's shit.
Vader has, without needing his enemies to monologue:
Taken down an AT-AT -
Pulled a freighter down with telekinesis:
Vader, too, lifted a hand and reached out with the Force toward the other ship.
Vader enmeshed himself in the Force, in his seething, ever-present wrath, and used it to take hold of the freighter and drive the entire ship toward the ground. He grunted with the effort, his respirator increasing his rate of breathing to account for the exertion.
The ship, its damaged engines unable to compensate enough against the downward push of Vader's power, went nose-down and streaked into the ground. Vader imagined the screams of the pilots as they watched the forest race toward them. The ship disappeared behind the tree line and exploded into a fireball that reached above the forest's canopy and caused the ground to vibrate. A cloud of black smoke rose into the darkening sky. A second boom sounded behind him, his Master having driven the second ship into the ground the same way. The forest went silent for a moment in the wake of the explosions, with only Vader's breathing to disrupt the quiet, before the howls and chirps and squeals of Ryloth's fauna returned. Vader, his Master, and the two Royal Guards stood untouched amid the smoking craters of blasterfire that pockmarked the terrain. The Royal Guards gazed at Vader, at his Master, and Vader imagined the looks of wonder they must have under their helmets. They knew the Emperor had power, though Vader doubted they'd ever seen it so nakedly displayed.
- Lord of the Sith
Since you want to use Legends feats, Vader has also matched Starkiller, who has:
Blasted away hundreds of droids at once:
Soon the foyer was full of the twitching, smoking bodies of the Temple’s hapless guardians. He began to tire, not from exertion but from the tedium of knocking down droid after droid, to no apparent end. There might have been thousands of them.
Deactivating his lightsaber, he took a deep breath. With one mighty exhalation of power, he blasted all of them—those in pieces and those approaching with needle-tipped fingers and vibrosaws upraised—out of the foyer doors. Then he blasted the rubbish piles after them. He kept pushing until a dark cloud soared out over Raxus Prime’s hideous landscape—an artificial hurricane full of droid golems.
When the foyer was clear, the apprentice straightened. He was no longer pushing with the Force, but the floor beneath him shook nonetheless. A heavy booming sound came from deeper in the Temple, and was getting louder. He had certainly attracted someone’s attention now.
exploded an AT-AT:
Behind him, triggered telekinetically, the downed AT-AT exploded, expending all its stored munitions in one blistering blast. Instead of destroying everything nearby, the blast was channeled along the trench and upward, enclosing the two nearby walkers, the stormtroopers firing from the guardrails, and the approaching TIE fighters. A new series of explosions followed the first, and the apprentice felt the superstructure kick beneath him. Fiery debris rained around them as they finally reached the hatch and threw themselves inside.
And his clone, who moved a 300 meter long frigate:
He found a maintenance ladder leading to an air lock and leapt up it in two bounds, blowing the inner hatch as he came. He could feel a wild drumming from the far side of the outer door. The ship was moving so fast now that unexposed flesh wouldn't last a microsecond. He would have to rely on a Force shield to keep him safe. A single lapse in concentration would be the end of him.
This was where it got difficult. He needed to maintain the Force shield against the sort of heat he might find in the outer layers of a star. He also had to keep in mind the target ahead-a target he couldn't see through the plasma, but had to hit square-on or else the planetary shield generators wouldn't fail. No matter what happened, he had to fly straight.
He raised his hands and spread his fingers wide. His eyes closed tightly against the fiery brightness of the plasma. With each bucking and shaking of the ship beneath him, he encouraged himself to ride with it instead of fighting it. He was part of the ship, not a passenger. He was the ship, not a reckless pilot guiding it to destruction.
In the same way that he could feel his fingers and roes, his mind seeped outward into the metal and plastoid of the frigate, until every joint and weld, every porthole and deck became part of his sense of being. There was no line anymore between Starkiller and the Salvation. They were one and the same being, from the perspective of the Force.
He raised his right arm, and the ship followed the movement, listing slowly and heavily to starboard. Some of the headlong shuddering faded, as though it were grateful to have someone at the helm again. Even the wind's shrieking seemed to ebb.
Disintegrates said 300 meter long frigate:
Just seconds remained before the Salvation's fore section hit Kamino. The facility was in close focus ahead of him, and he imagined he could see Juno's eyes widening on seeing him, haloed with his Force shield on top of her precious ship.
Did she know it was him, or did she wonder at this strange apparition? Did she imagine that he was her death coming at last, from the skies instead of Darth Vader's hand?
Starkiller closed his eyes. He didn't have time to wonder what was going through her mind. He had to think of something fast, or Juno was going to die.
There was only one thing he could do, and although he knew he wasn't likely to survive, he didn't hesitate. What was death when the love of his former life was at stake? Besides, anything was possible. Dying, as he had thought once before, always seemed to bring out the best in him.
With his mind and all the power of the Force, Starkiller embraced what remained of the frigate beneath him-and blew it into a billion pieces
The ship was almost upon them when the figure brought his hands down in a fierce, pounding motion, and the last solid fragment of the Salivation exploded into fiery pieces.
Juno coughed and wished she could wipe her eyes clear of ash. Her ship had blown itself practically to atoms; she had seen it happen, right in front of her. There was no chance at all that Starkiller could have survived. He had been riding right on top of it.
Starkiller's eyes jerked open. Where was he? All was dark around him. He smelled smoke and his body felt as though it had been hit by an asteroid. The last thing he remembered was tightening the Force shield around him and destroying the Salvation so it wouldn't kill Juno.
And the creator of TFUII claims that Vader had let the clone win, and in TFUIII would have owned him ( http://geeknation.com/podcasts/far-far-away-episode-viii-sam-witwer/ 1:20:40).
And this is Vader a decade or so before his prime in RotJ.
Bane, meanwhile, can barely knock around shadow assassins and break boxes and tents. When it comes to their mastery over the Force, there is no comparison between the two, and it renders any hypothetical lightsaber confrontation irrelevant.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I think it's become clear that you and Ellimist are some of the bitchiest debaters ever, though honestly, you're the one embarrassing yourself by continuing to post. And that's not even accounting for the fact you can't write a complete sentence for shit.
😬 Is randomly insulting literally everyone (me, Carthage, Tempest, Neph, SWL, hutchy, AP, Ant, etc.) your form of trolling? 'cause if so, it's a pretty subtle one. Probably a little too subtle. 🙂
Originally posted by hutchy1345
If you can point out reasoning for all that then that's fine
Oh and palpatine destroys his palace? No he just thinks about it as does bane.
Well I'm on my phone so I'm not even going to try and sort through all of that
However - freighter feat - vader definitely struggled
AT-AT feat- it's not like he squeezed his fist and it collapsed, it took time (one could say similar to charging)
But I still am interested in ur response to my durability and lightning points... something which has been overlooked everytime
Legends vader obviously has too many feats for bane to contend with seeing that bane has 3 books while vader is one of the most popular characters with tonnes of source material
Legends vader I will say is slighty above bane tk wise but there is no doubt that he doesn't just outright win in fact I'm not willing to accept that it will play a factor