It was pretty good, yeah.
Your insinuation that Avatar isn't 100% original is misguided: I'm not saying TFA needs to be 100% original in all of fiction.
I'm saying it shouldn't rip off its own IP to make a buck.
There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of stories from various media to look to for inspiration.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
It was pretty good, yeah.Your insinuation that Avatar isn't 100% original is misguided: I'm not saying TFA needs to be 100% original in all of fiction.
I'm saying it shouldn't rip off its own IP to make a buck.
There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of stories from various media to look to for inspiration.
I'm not insinuating, but you mentioned Avatar and I pointed out that it's basically a copy of Disney's Pocahontas.
And sure, it could've be done better, but even with that rip off, it's better than TPM and AOTC by far imo.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I'm not insinuating, but you mentioned Avatar and I pointed out that it's basically a copy of Disney's Pocahontas.And sure, it could've be done better, but even with that rip off, it's better than TPM and AOTC by far imo.
Yeah, that's an insinuation. I know Avatar isn't original and is a retooled Disney's Pocahontas.
But again, TFA ripped off its own series. That's hilariously lazy and unforgivable.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, that's an insinuation. I know Avatar isn't original and is a retooled Disney's Pocahontas.But again, TFA ripped off its own series. That's hilariously lazy and unforgivable.
It's a FACT. I stated a fact. K?
But it's not exactly a rip off, it's more like a tribute.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
It's a FACT. I stated a fact. K?But it's not exactly a rip off, it's more like a tribute.
Nah, it's a rip-off.
Avatar is more a tribute to Pocahontas than TFA is to ANH, precisely because it is (a) unoriginal and (b) undermines the OT.
TFA's plot essentially says Luke failed to re-establish the Jedi, the Empire's defeat is irrelevant because the First Order (which is virtually identical to the Empire on both substantial and superficial fronts) is on the rise, the New Republic is a joke, the Resistance is exactly like the Rebel Alliance, oh and Han and Chewie are doing the same shit they were doing 30 years ago because fvck character development.
I love ya, Colonel, but the ways in which TFA violates the OT are about as subtle as a brick to the face.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
TFA's plot essentially says Luke failed to re-establish the Jedi, the Empire's defeat is irrelevant because the First Order (which is virtually identical to the Empire on both substantial and superficial fronts) is on the rise, the New Republic is a joke, the Resistance is exactly like the Rebel Alliance, oh and Han and Chewie are doing the same shit they were doing 30 years ago because fvck character development.
Sound a lot like the EU. 😬
I agree that the Resistance/First Order split is dumb, but this hardly trivializes the OT. Had Vader not turned against Palpatine, there would've been essentially nobody to stop the Empire. In the ST, you still have a probably Palpatine+ tier Luke, a New Republic that technically exists, etc.
I did like TFA a lot, mostly because I find the originals really fugging dated, but yeah, it wasn't exactly ground-breaking.
To me Star Wars is untapped potential incarnate. Really awesome concept, a literal galaxy of potential, inhibited only by the minds behind the script. And that extends to the EU as well.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Sound a lot like the EU. 😬
Most of the EU sucked as well, for a plethora of reasons.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I agree that the Resistance/First Order split is dumb, but this hardly trivializes the OT. Had Vader not turned against Palpatine, there would've been essentially nobody to stop the Empire. In the ST, you still have a probably Palpatine+ tier Luke, a New Republic that technically exists, etc.
It absolutely trivializes the OT because the status quo is, for all intents and purposes, unchanged.
Well sure, did they honestly expect destroying the Death Star and killing its two leaders was going to annihilate or completely stop an Empire that spans through thousands (?) of planets? Of course not. The Empire being the largest military ever to grace the galaxy is a huge factor to this. Also, this was a ton of years after RotJ. For all we know, the numerous remnants of Palp's Empire could've taken years to re-group.
The fact the Luke failed to re-establish the Jedi Order is only interesting and adds a nice, unexpected twist to the saga.
The New Republic being reluctant to effectively be involved with the Empire or its remnants ever again is also interesting, and I'm sure the political reasons behind this will be explained eventually.
Yes, the Resistance is a blatant copy of the Alliance, but there's imo nothing wrong about that.
Han and Chewie doing the exact same shit they were doing 30 years ago doesn't show a lack of character development. Han will be Han, and Chewie will be Chewie, but you missed all those years in the middle when they weren't doing the exact same shit. Han's character development is noticeable in other ways; the fact that he's portrayed as the same ol' Han doesn't mean there wasn't character development imo.
I love ya too. 😍
Originally posted by The Ellimist
As I said, it isn't. The Resistance + New Republic + Luke > the Rebel Alliance, and the First Order <<<<<<<<<<<< Sheev's Empire.
As I said, it is.
Narratively, the First Order represents no less a threat to TFA's heroes than Sheev's empire did to ANH's. For all intents and purposes, they're the same overarching Goliath, stylistically and substantively, that the Empire was for ANH.
No one cares that there are minute, legal, logistical differences between them when the story treats them as virtually the same.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Well sure, did they honestly expect destroying the Death Star and killing its two leaders was going to annihilate or completely stop an Empire that spans through thousands (?) of planets? Of course not. The Empire being the largest military ever to grace the galaxy is a huge factor to this. Also, this was a ton of years after RotJ. For all we know, the numerous remnants of Palp's Empire could've taken years to re-group.The fact the Luke failed to re-establish the Jedi Order is only interesting and adds a nice, unexpected twist to the saga.
The New Republic being reluctant to effectively be involved with the Empire or its remnants ever again is also interesting, and I'm sure the political reasons behind this will be explained eventually.
Yes, the Resistance is a blatant copy of the Alliance, but there's imo nothing wrong about that.
Han and Chewie doing the exact same shit they were doing 30 years ago isn't exactly character development. Han will be Han, and Chewie will be Chewie, but you missed all those years in the middle when they weren't doing the exact same shit. Han's character development is noticeable in other ways; the fact that he's portrayed as the same ol' Han doesn't mean there wasn't character development imo.
I love ya too. 😍
Yuck. Let's just say we strongly disagree across the board. 👆
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Well sure, did they honestly expect destroying the Death Star and killing its two leaders was going to annihilate or completely stop an Empire that spans through thousands (?) of planets?
A million systems, actually. If we count the EU and Saxton's ICSs, the number of colonies and whatnot is like 50 million. That there was still a fight afterwards is actually pretty believable.
And the New Republic beat the Empire, and now controls the bulk of the galaxy + Coruscant. That the First Order seems to have the upper hand atm is just a temporary setback that tends to happen when pendulums swing in a protracted military conflict.
Granted, I do think the "Resistance" is kind of stupid, but whatever.