Originally posted by abhilegend
I already mentioned that. It was also made to look as authentic as possible.So not a problem.
But....the main thing was, it was a non fight, which is much less impressive.
Unless you're one of those lucky people who still believes on the magic of Hollywood, and that Matt Damon really IS a superspy called Jason Bourne.
You also said they took down the JSA without Chester and Hat?
Originally posted by abhilegend
You are a very terrible telepath then.
I'm actually an excellent telepath, notice how I didn't reveal all the other disturbing things in your mind and only revealed stuff we all already knew? You can thank me later. I find free drugs are a great way to thank someone..hint hint.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I already mentioned that. It was also made to look as authentic as possible.So not a problem.
We deal in facts.
At least, thats what YOU say when you're trying to blow off someone else's point, and what you ignore, when when trying to bullshit other posters.
So precious.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh, what? You know they were casually tossing around enough power to ignite suns, cracking moons in half and even without Manchester actually beat JLA?Since when did Surfer become so powerful?
Originally posted by abhilegend
You did?
Hard to overpower them when it was clearly stated that they were so high in power level that Superman needed a space shuttle and a ladder to reach at that level.Like I said they defeated entire JLA and without Manchester and Hat defeated JSA. They are packing a lot of power.
So we have five feats here, which, on face value, are incredibly impressive.
[list=1]
[*]Casually tossing around enough power to ignite suns
[*]cracking moons in half
[*]Without Chester, beating the JLA - later clarified to be the ENTIRE JLA.
[*]Being so high in power level that Superman needed a shuttle and a ladder to reach that level
[*]Without Chester and Hat, defeated the JSA.
[/list]
Let's go through each one.
Casually tossing around enough power to ignite suns
Never happened. Was a character statement from Steel.
Cracking moons in half
The full statement was that they cracked one of NEPTUNE's moons in half. Neptune has tiny moons - some of which are ~50km in diameter, and most are made of dirty ice. Karate Kid has similar feats.
Beating the entire JLA, without Chester
Was a plan concocted by Vera, to unite the world under one banner. The JLA needed to show that there was a big bad out there, and they let the Elite 'spank them first'.
Superman needs a shuttle/ladder to reach their level
Technically, the quote is a shuttle and a jetpack. And it was obviously not true, certainly not by feats. Which, apparently, are all that matters here.
Without Chester and the Hat, defeated the JSA
The JSA lineup they faced was Alan Scott, Black Canary, Power Girl, Hawkgirl, and Mr Terrific. A pretty strong lineup.
The Elite lineup? Coldcast, Menagerie, Vera Black, Batgirl with Shadow Thief tech, Green Arrow, Flash, Major Disaster, Manitou Raven.
The JSA were told by GA that they were all friendlies on an undercover op, and were actually backing down and retreating from the fight (in the scan below, Terrific is holding the arrow that Ollie shot, with a message for Canary). A hungover Major Disaster then AMPED Coldcast, whose blast threw Batgirl into Hawkgirl, stabbing her.
They all then stopped fighting.
So...another non feat. Coldcast doesn't have an out of control Disaster amping him, Batgirl isn't here, and Surfer isn't backing down. Not to mention, half (80%?) of that lineup isn't even here.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But....the main thing was, it was a non fight, which is much less impressive.Unless you're one of those lucky people who still believes on the magic of Hollywood, and that Matt Damon really IS a superspy called Jason Bourne.
You also said they took down the JSA without Chester and Hat?
How many times that has to be said to you?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So we have five feats here, which, on face value, are incredibly impressive.[list=1]
[*]Casually tossing around enough power to ignite suns
[*]cracking moons in half
[*]Without Chester, beating the JLA - later clarified to be the ENTIRE JLA.
[*]Being so high in power level that Superman needed a shuttle and a ladder to reach that level
[*]Without Chester and Hat, defeated the JSA.
[/list]Let's go through each one.
[b]Casually tossing around enough power to ignite suns
Never happened. Was a character statement from Steel.
And? Most of what they did was off panel and Steel was reading about their power level. He is one of the foremost scientists on DC earth after all.
Cracking moons in half
The full statement was that they cracked one of NEPTUNE's moons in half. Neptune has tiny moons - some of which are ~50km in diameter, and most are made of dirty ice. Karate Kid has similar feats.
Proof of it being a tiny moon?
Beating the entire JLA, without Chester
Was a plan concocted by Vera, to unite the world under one banner. The JLA needed to show that there was a big bad out there, and they let the Elite 'spank them first'.
Which needed to be as authentic as possible. Next.
Superman needs a shuttle/ladder to reach their level
Technically, the quote is a shuttle and a jetpack. And it was obviously not true, certainly not by feats. Which, apparently, are all that matters here.
They ****ed up Superman, Chester alone gave him a stroke casually, Coldcast dropped him with a neutrino wash and ****ed him up royally after that.
So no, not just statements.
Without Chester and the Hat, defeated the JSA
The JSA lineup they faced was Alan Scott, Black Canary, Power Girl, Hawkgirl, and Mr Terrific. A pretty strong lineup.The Elite lineup? Coldcast, Menagerie, Vera Black, Batgirl with Shadow Thief tech, Green Arrow, Flash, Major Disaster, Manitou Raven.
The JSA were told by GA that they were all friendlies on an undercover op, and were actually backing down and retreating from the fight (in the scan below, Terrific is holding the arrow that Ollie shot, with a message for Canary). A hungover Major Disaster then AMPED Coldcast, whose blast threw Batgirl into Hawkgirl, stabbing her.
Elite were taking a dive against JSA. Raven and Disaster never fought JSA.
Disaster took control of Coldcast's power, not amped him. That's not how his powers work.
They all then stopped fighting.
After Coldcast dropped them.
So...another non feat. Coldcast doesn't have an out of control Disaster amping him, Batgirl isn't here, and Surfer isn't backing down. Not to mention, half (80%?) of that lineup isn't even here.Are you unable to read or what? Disaster made a "disaster" happen that Coldcast had lost his control.[/B]
Are you unable to read or what
Hey now. Unlike 90% of the forum when debating against you, I don't insult you, or your intelligence, or bring up your heatstroke, or Supersucking, or whatever. So...yeah.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And? Most of what they did was off panel and Steel was reading about their power level. He is one of the foremost scientists on DC earth after all.
Proof of it being a tiny moon?
The largest is 2705 km in diameter. Far smaller than our Moon. The others are ALL much smaller. They're so small, they haven't even collapsed into spherical shapes. As Lois didn't even mention the name of the moon (and, as a Pulitzer winning reporter, if we're going down that route, you'd expect her to be detailed about facts), it wouldn't be Triton, but one of the smaller ones.
Which needed to be as authentic as possible. Next.
You keep hand waving this away, but you cannot deny that as your original posts were presented, it sounded as if they overpowered the JLA in a straight up fight.
They ****ed up Superman, Chester alone gave him a stroke casually, Coldcast dropped him with a neutrino wash and ****ed him up royally after that.So no, not just statements.
Elite were taking a dive against JSA.
Raven and Disaster never fought JSA.Disaster took control of Coldcast's power, not amped him. That's not how his powers work.
Wait, was Disaster responsible for taking the JSA out or not?
After Coldcast dropped them.
Ignoring the bravado Coldcast is giving to his brother (not my best....not by a mile), we have Batgirl's unbiased report. Which says he overrreacted - so that wasn't a small blast, by any means.
Are you unable to read or what? Disaster made a "disaster" happen that Coldcast had lost his control.
Still didn't do anything, as the JSA were still up and walking, EXCEPT for Hawkgirl, who was stabbed by Kasumi. That was it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hey now. Unlike 90% of the forum when debating against you, I don't insult you, or your intelligence, or bring up your heatstroke, or Supersucking, or whatever. So...yeah.
I couldn't care less.
The point I'm making, is that most (all?) of your initial statements were coming off as if they had all these great showings. I don't give much weight to Panther taking Black Dwarf out off panel, and I don't give much weight to off-panel feats. Not to mention, previously in this thread you were saying we went by feats here?
Yes, and Steel said about the energy output which they were tossing around by impunity.
Even the narration informs that the Elite rivaled League in power.
But we will pretend as if they were Teen Titans.
Neptune has 14 moons. Most of them are small:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_NeptuneThe largest is 2705 km in diameter. Far smaller than our Moon. The others are ALL much smaller. They're so small, they haven't even collapsed into spherical shapes. As Lois didn't even mention the name of the moon (and, as a Pulitzer winning reporter, if we're going down that route, you'd expect her to be detailed about facts), it wouldn't be Triton, but one of the smaller ones.
That's a cute leap of logic. Why would it be a smaller one if she thinks its a big enough feat that she is worried about Superman's life and citing it?
You keep hand waving this away, but you cannot deny that as your original posts were presented, it sounded as if they overpowered the JLA in a straight up fight.
Never said that.
Superman is not in this thread 😛 But yes, an energy blast against Surfer? OK.
Yes, its like no energy attack has ever beaten Surfer, right?
Especially something which messes up your nervous system. Like this?
Right. This is the funniest thing in Surfer threads. Unless you have beaten him in comics, you simply can't beat him on forums.
So, another non fight, is what you're saying? One side was taking a dive, and the other was stopping the fighting?
And?
Wait, was Disaster responsible for taking the JSA out or not?
No, Coldcast was. Disaster simply made him lose control.
When did he drop them? The only time Coldcast tried to attack Alan, this happened:Ignoring the bravado Coldcast is giving to his brother (not my best....not by a mile), we have Batgirl's unbiased report. Which says he overrreacted - so that wasn't a small blast, by any means.
When he lost control. Also, can you just post links?
Yup, he took Coldcast's mental blocks off. I've heard that it can really help amp a character.
Really? Are we going that route now?
Still didn't do anything, as the JSA were still up and walking, EXCEPT for Hawkgirl, who was stabbed by Kasumi. That was it.
Yeah, characters do wake up in time. What a novel concept, right?
Originally posted by abhilegend
I couldn't care less.
Yes, and Steel said about the energy output which they were tossing around by impunity.Even the narration informs that the Elite rivaled League in power.
But we will pretend as if they were Teen Titans.
Strange how you're just using off panel non feats, narration and...fake fights to bolster your case.
That's a cute leap of logic. Why would it be a smaller one if she thinks its a big enough feat that she is worried about Superman's life and citing it?
Here is the list:
http://www.whillyard.com/science-pages/our-solar-system/neptunes-moons.html
They are all under 200km in diameter, except for three - and even then, only Triton is anything worth writing home about. I'm not sure you realise how tiny Triton is - Australia, the smallest continent, is larger than that. AND Australia's made of rock etc, not ice. So, on the face of it, sound impressive, but it's less than continent busting.
We go by averages here, this isn't CBR. You cannot just assume the largest moon, when it has not been named. EVEN if you did, it's still far below continent busting. Which, apparently, Surfer has.
Never said that.
Yes, its like no energy attack has ever beaten Surfer, right?
I was wondering how long it would take you to start posting low showings. Granted, I've been stretching the page with long posts, so this is really the second page in other threads.
Takes far less to take Superman out, right?
But of course, that was McDuffie. We must ignore him!!! Writer intent was to lowball Superman, right?
Kelly's intention in the JLE storylines was to show how Superman can rise above his enemies, no matter their power level. IOW, PIS/WIS so that Superman can win (look how super duper extreme and powerful these guys are! Superman has no chan- oh, wait, he's beaten them. Huzzah!)
I like how we ignore Kelly's intent in this storyline, but McDuffie's intent (and John Byrne et al) cannot be ignored.
Especially something which messes up your nervous system. Like this?
Right. This is the funniest thing in Surfer threads. Unless you have beaten him in comics, you simply can't beat him on forums.
And?
No, Coldcast was. Disaster simply made him lose control.When he lost control. Also, can you just post links?
Really? Are we going that route now?
Yeah, characters do wake up in time. What a novel concept, right?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Fair enough!
Cool. On this board, we go by feats. Take that CBR thinking out of here
That's a reading on their power level by a scientist. That's as accurate as you can get.
Strange how you're just using off panel non feats, narration and...fake fights to bolster your case.
Fake fights and non feats? Like I said, are you able to read well, anything?
I'm just saying, it's not Triton. I have a 13/14 chance of it not being Triton (or, a 93%chance)Here is the list:
http://www.whillyard.com/science-pages/our-solar-system/neptunes-moons.htmlThey are all under 200km in diameter, except for three - and even then, only Triton is anything worth writing home about. I'm not sure you realise how tiny Triton is - Australia, the smallest continent, is larger than that. AND Australia's made of rock etc, not ice. So, on the face of it, sound impressive, but it's less than continent busting.
Why not? Your circular reasoning that it must not be triton is just that, circular reasoning.
Any proof of that?
We go by averages here, this isn't CBR. You cannot just assume the largest moon, when it has not been named. EVEN if you did, it's still far below continent busting. Which, apparently, Surfer has.
This is the average of Elite. They have only one appearance as a team.
Unless Surfer destroys planets every issue, that's not an average.
Never said you did I merely quoted you where you said, without Chester, they actually beat the JLA.
I specified how they did it too.
I was wondering how long it would take you to start posting low showings. Granted, I've been stretching the page with long posts, so this is really the second page in other threads.
For that to be a low showing, you must have a showing where Surfer tanks an attack like that, right?
Takes far less to take Superman out, right?But of course, that was McDuffie. We must ignore him!!! Writer intent was to lowball Superman, right?
Out of context lowballing, huh? FYI, Vixen had half of Superman's power there and Parasite had also drained her of that power.
So Superman was basically at a fraction of his power there.
Kelly's intention in the JLE storylines was to show how Superman can rise above his enemies, no matter their power level. IOW, PIS/WIS so that Superman can win (look how super duper extreme and powerful these guys are! Superman has no chan- oh, wait, he's beaten them. Huzzah!)
If only it was that simple.
[quote[I like how we ignore Kelly's intent in this storyline, but McDuffie's intent (and John Byrne et al) cannot be ignored.
Wait, so now Surfer shares feats? Since when did he have a Kryptonian nervous system?
[/quote]
A synapse disruptor works on the same principle.
Never said that.
Well, you are saying that.
And...it holds as much weight as....well, nothing, really.
Says who?
Hey, the evidence is right there. With control, Coldcast made PG yawn and Alan effortlessly block it. Without, APPARENTLY, Coldcast took them out. But that's the next point...
Yeah, taking a dive Coldcast can't beat them. We already established that.
Got scans of them KOed? You can post links if you want. [/B]
The scene cuts away from them but when they wake up, Elite were long gone.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's a reading on their power level by a scientist. That's as accurate as you can get.
Fake fights and non feats? Like I said, are you able to read well, anything?
Why not? Your circular reasoning that it must not be triton is just that, circular reasoning.
Any proof of that?
This is the average of Elite. They have only one appearance as a team.
Unless Surfer destroys planets every issue, that's not an average.
Yet, he did it against Chester.
Yet, Surfer is unable to use powers he has used before - even though he has FAR fewer showings than Supes.
I specified how they did it too.
For that to be a low showing, you must have a showing where Surfer tanks an attack like that, right?
How powerful is Coldcast? We don't know. We know as a shared feat they managed to crack a ball of ice, which is smaller than the smallest continent, in two. We know by a few statements that they are powerful.
THAT'S it.
Out of context lowballing, huh? FYI, Vixen had half of Superman's power there and Parasite had also drained her of that power.So Superman was basically at a fraction of his power there.
Maybe one day you will realise what I'm doing here.
If only it was that simple.
A synapse disruptor works on the same principle.
Well, you are saying that.
Says who?
Yeah, taking a dive Coldcast can't beat them. We already established that.
The scene cuts away from them but when they wake up, Elite were long gone.
Ok, it seems like you're simply arguing for the sake of arguing.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85You and I both know that if carver came in here with the same arguments, we'd both crucify him, lol.
You're basically Carver at this point.
Fake: JLA/JSA fight
Non-feats: Igniting a sun (never happened), cracking a moonAny proof of that? Any proof that it was Triton? Otherwise, we take averages. And on AVERAGE, Neptune's moons are pretty small - as shown by my links.
Proof of what? That Neptune's moons are mainly dirty ice? That they are all pretty small? That the largest moon is still smaller than the smallest continent?
These are all repetitive. Apparently your opinions are facts now and I've to give proof to deny that.
Good luck with that.
Cool, so this is a non thread then. Like Golgo and his threads whenever a new character appears.
Nonsense.
How many times does Superman use focussed concussions to turn people's powers off? Out of the 10,000 or so appearances he has had?
Red herring. I'll not give Superman a majority against Elite on average anyway.
Yet, he did it against Chester.
Yet, Surfer is unable to use powers he has used before - even though he has FAR fewer showings than Supes.
Nonsense.
You did? In your first couple of posts on the subject, without me prompting you and scratching beneath the surface? Cool, am sure you did.
Again nonsense.
An attack like what? Superman was rope-a-doping them to see how they fought, to trick them. We have ZERO evidence as to how powerful that attack was, except that it exhausted Coldcast. Nothing more.
That neutrino wash dropped him like anything.
Are you still in denial or what?
How powerful is Coldcast? We don't know. We know as a shared feat they managed to crack a ball of ice, which is smaller than the smallest continent, in two. We know by a few statements that they are powerful.
That's a nice opinion. If only you could provide any proof for that from the comic.
THAT'S it.
Nonsense.
I was totally going to explain all that context a few pages later. Super cereal.
Maybe one day you will realise what I'm doing here.
Making nonsensical claims?
It is that stimple. I have the foreword from Kelly, explaining what he did - how he was sick of all the 'dark;' and extreme characters and storylines, and the JLE storyline was originally meant to show how Superman still had a place in this world. It is NOT a writer interview, so totally admissible on the forums.
That's relevant in a fight?
So yes, we get to share feats across characters.
Nope. Please quote me where I said Surfer was unbeatable unless you've beaten him in comics.
You basically said attack Surfer with energy as if he has never been beaten like that.
Logic. You're saying that actors and acting = the real thing. Matt Damon really is Jason Bourne. Daniel Craig = Bond. Redmayne = Stephen Hawking. They were all super believable!
Nonsense.
Wait, I thought you said they beat the JSA? Now they didn't?
Which they did.
Guess I shouldn't post the scan of the Elite AND the JSA taking Hawkgirl to the hospital, huh? They were together. [/B]
Those were not Elite. Only the JSA were there.
But yeah, keep spouting nonsense.
As you basically handwaved everything I said, I'll just respond to the points which weren't 'na-uh, nonsense'.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Those were not Elite. Only the JSA were there.But yeah, keep spouting nonsense.
Nonsense, eh?
Only the JSA, eh?
I see GA, Menagerie, and the ravens of Manitou in the background. Three members of the Elite.
