Originally posted by Scribble
Yeah, I wonder that too.Well, it doesn't make me uncomfortable, I wonder why that is, as well? Will we ever know why certain things make us feel a certain way? iunno.
No we totally can know why certain things make us feel a certain way. I know exactly why and I think deep down you know too.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well I agree with Scribble on that front, most poll based statistics should be taken with a pinch of salt, and a heaping if their methods indicate a skewed result.After all the polls got Brexit wrong didn't they?
Which would also mean polls asking people if there should be a second vote couldn't be trusted either. Let's hope the will of the people as set forth by the vote is put forth by those whose job it is to do so. I do hope democracy reigns supreme for you guys.
Originally posted by SurturYeah, I do, I was just seeing if you'd actually state your opinion instead of hiding behind vague comments and faux ignorance.
No we totally can know why certain things make us feel a certain way. I know exactly why and I think deep down you know too.
In the wake of the 7/7 bombings in London, I can't deny I felt fear when a Muslim with a backpack got on the bus or train I was on. That makes sense, in the wake of an attack like that. At the moment, I'm somewhat wary of being accosted by people due to my decision to vote 'Remain', as they may deem me a traitor and beat the shit out of me. I'm wary of teenagers, due to having been mugged before. I'm wary of police officers when I have weed on me. I'm worried about a lot of things, because the world is a scary place. Being wary of people is fine. When that fear leads to outright bigotry, then there is a problem.
Originally posted by Scribble
I find personal experience to be the best way of understanding one's own community. I also went to a 95% Muslim secondary school, the rates of violence and knife crime there were much lower than the other two neighbouring schools, which were much more religiously diverse. And we're not talking about world-wide, and haven't been for a long time, you should look back a few pages so you can get the thread of the discussion. Right now, I have no idea what you are arguing or stating, really.
Originally posted by Stigma
Admittedly so does experience, but this is just a part of the bigger picture, for everyone's experience is naturally limited.
I see. Well, I tend to look at the problem of radical Islam as a global issue, given that its a worldwide threat as seen in terrorist attacks conducted in various parts of the world..
Either way, talking just about the West, the data shows that Muslims in Western countries tend be more moderate and not as radical as in the traditionally Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia or Egypt. So obviously we are on the same page.
However, a large group of them are not. This is still a big issue, not easily explained by the age issue, I feel. Once in a while a study surfaces that shows that majority of Muslims hold radical beliefs, for example, the study results posted by Parmaniac that deal with German Muslims.
Sure bigotry is bad, but citing a poll that said 50% of British Muslims think homosexuality isn't really bigotry. Bigotry would be saying all muslims hate homosexuals.
Indeed, most people do not paint all muslims with the same brush. What I see done the most often is people saying the amount of muslims that hold radical beliefs is higher than we have been lead to believe.
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
For everyone bitching about leaving, i haven't heard any compelling arguments for staying other than, "won't anyone think of the children?!"
I'm sure one of more of the UK people can provide you with more in depth analysis as I'm an outside observer.
edit: I'd also argue that the 'think of the children' is another valid reason. It's the duty of the current generation in control to try and leave the place better off for the future generation, itself of '**** you, I got mine', imo
Originally posted by StigmaYes, but the thing we're talking about stems from my comment about how I think it's disgusting that racist remarks and violence are being brought onto the streets of Britain following the Brexit vote, and how I don't think you should tar everyone in a culture based on the actions of a minority.
👆I see. Well, I tend to look at the problem of radical Islam as a global issue, given that its a worldwide threat as seen in terrorist attacks conducted in various parts of the world..
Either way, talking just about the West, the data shows that Muslims in Western countries tend be more moderate and not as radical as in the traditionally Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia or Egypt. So obviously we are on the same page.
However, a large group of them are not. This is still a big issue, not easily explained by the age issue, I feel. Once in a while a study surfaces that shows that majority of Muslims hold radical beliefs, for example, the study results posted by Parmaniac that deal with German Muslims.
Since extremism and Islam are big threats at the moment, I don't want the decent, friendly Muslims I know to be treated with the disdain that terrorists deserve.
But I do agree that there is still a level of threat from homegrown terrorism, even in the UK. Whilst only two students in my year at school have gone to fight in Syria (I don't know which side for), TI made the point that 'only two' is still two, and I get that. I can't do much about radical Islam, but I can work towards defending my friends from being labelled the same as the pieces of shit who murder in the name of Allah.
Originally posted by ScribbleGreat, I can see you point and I think we more or less agree. No quarell here.👆
Yes, but the thing we're talking about stems from my comment about how I think it's disgusting that racist remarks and violence are being brought onto the streets of Britain following the Brexit vote, and how I don't think you should tar everyone in a culture based on the actions of a minority.Since extremism and Islam are big threats at the moment, I don't want the decent, friendly Muslims I know to be treated with the disdain that terrorists deserve.
But I do agree that there is still a level of threat from homegrown terrorism, even in the UK. Whilst only two students in my year at school have gone to fight in Syria (I don't know which side for), TI made the point that 'only two' is still two, and I get that. I can't do much about radical Islam, but I can work towards defending my friends from being labelled the same as the pieces of shit who murder in the name of Allah.
Originally posted by SurturIt depends what 'radical beliefs' entail. I imagine more Christians hold radical beliefs than we are led to believe, but since they don't act on them, we'll never know. And a lot of these Muslims that you are implying to hold 'radical beliefs' won't act on them either, because although they may be a bit more conservative with their beliefs, they aren't 'radical' enough to go out onto the streets and start attacking people.
Sure bigotry is bad, but citing a poll that said 50% of British Muslims think homosexuality isn't really bigotry. Bigotry would be saying all muslims hate homosexuals.Indeed, most people do not paint all muslims with the same brush. What I see done the most often is people saying the amount of muslims that hold radical beliefs is higher than we have been lead to believe.
Originally posted by Scribble
It depends what 'radical beliefs' entail. I imagine more Christians hold radical beliefs than we are led to believe, but since they don't act on them, we'll never know. And a lot of these Muslims that you are implying to hold 'radical beliefs' won't act on them either, because although they may be a bit more conservative with their beliefs, they aren't 'radical' enough to go out onto the streets and start attacking people.
Yes, but when they do act on their radical beliefs there tends to be a high body count unfortunately.
You also have to admit one other key difference: the need to bend over backwards to say something wasn't caused by Christian beliefs. That really doesn't happen..at least nowhere near to the same extent it does for trying to say something wasn't caused by Islamist beliefs.
Look no further than Orlando and how at one point they edited out any mention of ISIS in the 911 call the killer made. Or how Obama really goes out of his way to not call it radical Islam. Or even if you agree with not calling it that..I don't know if you essentially saw Obama blaming us for this? Essentially saying American values or whatever are what made this happen. He didn't say that word for word, but that was the overall jist of it. It was apparently our intolerance that caused this. Wouldn't you be disturbed if your leader said that?
Originally posted by Robtard
From what I understand, the UK stands to lose vast amounts of jobs and research funding, as being two of the main reasons. And as noted, many of the major promises the 'Leave' camp promised are not feasible. eg Immigration isn't going to just suddenly stop and if the UK wants to have reasonable trade agreements with the EU(which they'll need), the EU is going to insist on an open borders.I'm sure one of more of the UK people can provide you with more in depth analysis as I'm an outside observer.
edit: I'd also argue that the 'think of the children' is another valid reason. It's the duty of the current generation in control to try and leave the place better off for the future generation, itself of '**** you, I got mine', imo
Fair enough but "think of the children" is only an argument if it's somehow qualified. Otherwise it's a useless emotional response. I'm interested to see for and against EU arguments. At the same time, I'm not a fan of the EU and find them only a step up from the impotent, ignorant UN.