Originally posted by SurturIt's one of the many issues the Leave campaign has backtracked on:
I still don't see why the EU would insist on open borders when that was one of the reasons they wanted to leave in the first place.
Originally posted by SurturIt's one of the many issues the Leave campaign has backtracked on:
I still don't see why the EU would insist on open borders when that was one of the reasons they wanted to leave in the first place.
Originally posted by MS WarehouseWell let me be the first to explain my reasons, which are mainly to do with what the EU offers us from an internationalist standpoint. Like:
Slay, if you're going to ask me to research remain arguments, then there is no need for these threads. Im asking you.
- Free movement of people, goods, services and capital.
- Free overseas healthcare.
- International opportunities for UK businesses (quite a lot of which were firmly against leaving).
- The ability to work and live anywhere in the EU.
- Research grants and paying EU students for our universities, as well as education opportunities abroad.
- Collaborative international research on things like cancer treatment.
- International security and crime prevention.
- United efforts to preserve our environment and tackle climate change on an international level.
- And the various other ways the EU facilitates solidarity and cooperation in general, and prevents us from devolving into isolated, racist ****s.
The EU has also brought about an unprecedented level of peace on our continent for 60 years now (which today takes the form of nuclear non-proliferation), bearing in mind that prior that that we were pretty much slaughtering each other on an off and on basis. And since is formation it's reformed many former dictatorships that are now member states (and is poised to do the same for what remains of Eastern Europe).
I certainly get the opposing arguments regarding the EU bureaucracy, threats to our sovereignty and control over our borders (though the immigration problem has been notably overblown). But I think construing the EU on that basis some kind of demonic superstate sucking up all our money (a lot of which goes to good causes, shocker) is to ignore all its benefits, and the good it's done for our continent. It also only gives justification for reform, not leaving all together. Certainly the EU isn't going away, as Rob points out, much of the goals of the Leave campaign are simply unattainable, and the fact that the Leave camp is now backtracking on several of its promises already only goes to reinforce this.
Altogether I believe that the European Union, while certainly not perfect in its current state, is fundamentally a good idea, and we are better of being a part of it. All this nationalist nonsense about "getting our country back" being a bunch of hot air. And frankly now we've finally have it back, it's starting to look pretty shit.
But anyway, we've voted. I only hope the one benefit from this is that the rest of the EU will wake up and sort its self out before the whole thing falls to pieces.
Originally posted by Time-ImmemorialNo and I never implied as much. The point I was making is merely that the EU in encouraging internationalism combats racism, whereas isolating ourselves as we have can only serve to exacerbate it. In fact people are already using this result as an excuse to be openly racist on our streets:
Good post, but the racist part is unwelcome and unfounded. Are you willing to say 51% of your country is racist now?
Which hardly bodes well for our future.
Originally posted by NephthysLmao perfect, that about covers everything I missed. 👆
https://nfcomics.tumblr.com/post/146539955800/the-life-of-brexit-posted-this-on-imgur-by
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well let me be the first to explain my reasons, which are mainly to do with what the EU offers us from an internationalist standpoint. Like:- Free movement of people, goods, services and capital.
- Free overseas healthcare.
- International opportunities for UK businesses (quite a lot of which were firmly against leaving).
- The ability to work and live anywhere in the EU.
- Research grants and paying EU students for our universities, as well as education opportunities abroad.
- Collaborative international research on things like cancer treatment.
- International security and crime prevention.
- United efforts to preserve our environment and tackle climate change on an international level.
- And the various other ways the EU facilitates solidarity and cooperation in general, and prevents us from devolving into isolated, racist ****s.The EU has also brought about an unprecedented level of peace on our continent for 60 years now (which today takes the form of nuclear non-proliferation), bearing in mind that prior that that we were pretty much slaughtering each other on an off and on basis. And since is formation it's reformed many former dictatorships that are now member states (and is poised to do the same for what remains of Eastern Europe).
I certainly get the opposing arguments regarding the EU bureaucracy, threats to our sovereignty and control over our borders (though the immigration problem has been notably overblown). But I think construing the EU on that basis some kind of demonic superstate sucking up all our money (a lot of which goes to good causes, shocker) is to ignore all its benefits, and the good it's done for our continent. It also only gives justification for reform, not leaving all together. Certainly the EU isn't going away, as Rob points out, much of the goals of the Leave campaign are simply unattainable, and the fact that the Leave camp is now backtracking on several of its promises already only goes to reinforce this.
Altogether I believe that the European Union, while certainly not perfect in its current state, is fundamentally a good idea, and we are better of being a part of it. All this nationalist nonsense about "getting our country back" being a bunch of hot air. And frankly now we've finally have it back, it's starting to look pretty shit.
But anyway, we've voted. I only hope the one benefit from this is that the rest of the EU will wake up and sort its self out before the whole thing falls to pieces.
Fair points. You do however keep bringing up "fundamentally" good idea, meaning the practice of the EU is less than desirable?
Also, here's an interesting read:
https://mises.org/library/european-union-anti-european
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No and I never implied as much. The point I was making is merely that the EU in encouraging internationalism combats racism, whereas isolating ourselves as we have can only serve to exacerbate it. In fact people are already using this result as an excuse to be openly racist on our streets:Which hardly bodes well for our future.Lmao perfect, that about covers everything I missed. 👆
The running card now is that nationalism=racism.
So the part where you brought up racism didn't make sense to me because internationalism/globalism causes more racism then nationalism.
Globalism is forcing people to give up their own rights and freedoms for other people from other countries, and making people change how they live for forced migration.
Originally posted by Time-ImmemorialWell I admit its a complicated issue, but I fail to see how racism can possibly be overcome without reaching out and encouraging solidarity with our neighbours, and yes, accommodating for them as well.
The running card now is that nationalism=racism.So the part where you brought up racism didn't make sense to me because internationalism/globalism causes more racism then nationalism.
Globalism is forcing people to give up their own rights and freedoms for other people from other countries, and making people change how they live for forced migration.
Originally posted by MS WarehouseWell yeah, I don't think the EU is perfect. But I think we are better of reforming it from within than leaving altogether.
Fair points. You do however keep bringing up "fundamentally" good idea, meaning the practice of the EU is less than desirable?Also, here's an interesting read:
https://mises.org/library/european-union-anti-european
And that was an interesting read, but I can't help but find its post-EU Europe rather romanticised. For example:
Europe was where the road to freedom began. It was in Europe that the values of individualism, liberalism, and autonomy rose from history and gave humanity a sense of progress that no civilization had ever experienced to such an extent before. Unfortunately, the values and institutions that made Europe great vanished under the pressure of political centralization, nationalism, statism, socialism, and fascism in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.
I mean really? 18th century Europe was not a great place, and he missed democracy from that little list. Still good points, can't say I buy much into those ideals however.
I really believe the globalist agenda of multiculturalism is a total lie and will do nothing but destroy the cultures that have been long standing in the name of "human rights."
If you think about it, why is ok for these faceless politicians and Bureaucrats to tell you and me how we should live?
Just look at this crap
Perhaps a bit populistic, but interesting nonetheless. Watch first 15-20 minutes if you're not up for the whole video.
Brexit: Why the British want to leave the EU? (English documentary with subtitles in Polish)
By Scribbleyeah, I can't afford alcohol right now.See xyz, when you actually lay down your opinions without resorting to xenophobic rhetoric, you actually make some sense. You should do it more often.
I disagree that the Middle East needs occupation, but I get where you are coming from. I just feel that if we occupied the Middle East again it'd just incite more hatred towards the West. But the West is already hated by Islam extremists, so what can we do? It's a tough call, one I'm not adequately informed to make. And yeah, the media has completely reduced the Brexit debate to black and white, another of my main issues with how most people see and talk about things: it's all one or the other, liberal or conservative, pro-immigration or anti-immigration, etc. etc., and that just isn't how the world works. We need to make sure that we approach each situation from a rational and as non-biased point of view as is possible. I think if more people did that, there'd be less tension and vitriol in our society.
Well, it's not the Middle East per se, but specific countries we've been fighting since the 90s. Sudan, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. Al Qaeda might have been Poseidon'd but IS is a network of terrorism and occupation and attack of them specifically is the big problem. I don't know what to do, but I bet if anyone got shit done, it'd be Trump.
The Brexit shit is still funny. My college friends were all over Facebook circle jerking how I racist they are for voting out, and I said "I'm polish, and I'm glad we're out. I'm not an ignorant racist, I just think we don't need the EU telling us how to write our laws" and they completely BTFO'd and insulted me with name calling and memes. Guess they finally know what it's like to be the voter minority, ****ing liberals.
Non graduate racists were simply just morons, so I'm a little embarrassed to be on their side, haha.