Full Powered Omega Iceman vs The Flashes

Originally posted by h1a8
He stated that he was in all water all over the world. We know this is figurative talk and he meant that he can sense through, travel to, and manipulate all water all over the world from where he stands.
We know this because of how he actually operated in the comic.
Look at his fight with Thor. He operated as a single consciousness in a single body. Bobby was even stunned when Thor hit him with lightning.
Look at his ice clones. There were no consciousness inside of them. They were mearly being animated by him. If his consciousness was, everywhere then the psychic would have detected Bobby in the clones. But there was nothing there (empty shells).

Bobby starts off as material when the forum begins. His consciousness will be in his material body. Flash can bfr him into the speed force the instant the bell rings. Both his body and consciousness will be bfred.

I believe that if you transmute his body (turn it to hydrogen atoms) then he will die and ceast to exist (just like anyone).

Says no bfr in the op just saying

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What are you asking me exactly? I dont like characters jobbing but i also would like them to go by their portrayals. So Bruce outsmarting superman is fine but him "beating' him physically is bad writing. Same with Namor/BP etc...

The problem with the way you debate is exactly y phrases like "forum flash" and "full powered omega iceman" exist. We are no longer debating characters we are debating powersets. So if u want to do that change the thread title to speedster vs ice elemental. And throw characterization out the window

So Characterization would affect Surfer's behavior (whether to blast or soul suck) but not his durability or ability to perceive fast things as they were much slower.

If a character never has done something and it isn't common sense to do then most likely they are not doing it in a forum fight.

Finally, flash will eventually realize that he has to bfr Bobby since he will be literally thinking for many years within a fraction of a second .

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Says no bfr in the op just saying

Originally posted by hutchy1345
That's fine
But how does flash win
You can't kill his consciousness if he can't pinpoint it

There are multiple versions of Flash here, some of which don't need to kill him to defeat him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Characterization only affects the decisions of a character, not their power set. Speed of perceptions is a particular set where characterization doesn't affect. The same goes for durability. These power sets are always on unless a comic tells us that a character can alter them greatly at will.

So Characterization would affect Surfer's behavior (whether to blast or soul suck) but not his durability or ability to perceive fast things as they were much slower.

If a character never has done something and it isn't common sense to do then most likely they are not doing it in a forum fight.

Finally, flash will eventually realize that he has to bfr Bobby since he will be literally thinking for many years within a fraction of a second .

You've been told this before though ad nauseum everything I've already said. Besides we go by averages not high feats only

Originally posted by h1a8
He stated that he was in all water all over the world. We know this is figurative talk and he meant that he can sense through, travel to, and manipulate all water all over the world from where he stands.
We know this because of how he actually operated in the comic.
Look at his fight with Thor. He operated as a single consciousness in a single body. Bobby was even stunned when Thor hit him with lightning.
Look at his ice clones. There were no consciousness inside of them. They were mearly being animated by him. If his consciousness was, everywhere then the psychic would have detected Bobby in the clones. But there was nothing there (empty shells).

Its funny you mention that, because if you keep reading, right after the attempts to reach the clones, He himself showed up, and she still couldnt get in his mind, and it was the actual Bobby that time around. "Im trying to enter his mind...But he's just like the others. Its as if...Beneath his skin he's all ice." He got stabbed from behind and there was on effect at all, yet when he got big, and Gambit blew his foot up, he reacted to it. He was operating in a single body and still his mind could not be reached.

Even when they were on the ship with Prosh, Jean sensed him and was able to speak, but she was even unsure if it was him. And again, he said hes everywhere.

that's why he likened himself to a god--he was omnipresent in water around the world. he didn't have to 'send' his consciousness anywhere--it was there already. this IS full potential. it's the only reason he would win this.

I haven't read an Xmen comic in years. Who wants to update me on what exactly just happened with Bobby and why he's fighting the X-Men?

Emma frost took over him right?

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Emma frost took over him right?

He was in a coma, and she took over his body

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I haven't read an Xmen comic in years. Who wants to update me on what exactly just happened with Bobby and why he's fighting the X-Men?

Well he was really in conflict with himself all along. But Dark Beast put a fragment of apocalypse inside him issues ago. That fragment work pretty much how Apoc was operating in the movie. It opened Bobbys mind in which he wasnt holding his powers back. Conflict was in his mind from issues with his father and former ex's Lorna, Opal, Kitty. Thor came into play because he sensed the end of the world Ragnarok(sp?).

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/iceman-vs-sub-zero-8626/?page=3

Near the bottom of that page there's a series of scans posted that basically sum up why iceman is ridiculously powerful, he's gotta be one of the most powerful mutants that doesn't have reality warping
He stomps this fight, "I could kill you with a thought. I could kill this whole world, right this second"
Also I may be wrong but did iceman not beat oblivion?

Originally posted by hutchy1345
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/iceman-vs-sub-zero-8626/?page=3

Near the bottom of that page there's a series of scans posted that basically sum up why iceman is ridiculously powerful, he's gotta be one of the most powerful mutants that doesn't have reality warping
He stomps this fight, "I could kill you with a thought. I could kill this whole world, right this second"
Also I may be wrong but did iceman not beat oblivion?

How does Iceman resist a speedsteal?

Originally posted by Surtur
How does Iceman resist a speedsteal?

I dont think he needs to resist it. Speed stealing doenst stop thought. Only movement. We all know Bobby doesnt need a body to operate.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its funny you mention that, because if you keep reading, right after the attempts to reach the clones, He himself showed up, and she still couldnt get in his mind, and it was the actual Bobby that time around. "Im trying to enter his mind...But he's just like the others. Its as if...Beneath his skin he's all ice." He got stabbed from behind and there was on effect at all, yet when he got big, and Gambit blew his foot up, he reacted to it. He was operating in a single body and still his mind could not be reached.

Even when they were on the ship with Prosh, Jean sensed him and was able to speak, but she was even unsure if it was him. And again, he said hes everywhere.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's why he likened himself to a god--he was omnipresent in water around the world. he didn't have to 'send' his consciousness anywhere--it was there already. this IS full potential. it's the only reason he would win this.

False, he can sense inside and control water everywhere. That's like being there. He can send himself (physical representation) anywhere. His existence (soul) was at 1 place at a time. We know this because his clones were DIFFERENT them himself.
If he could be everywhere in the literal sense then his clones would have been exactly him. But they weren't.
Also, it was shown to take a few seconds from Bobby travel. He could have instantly been at 2 places at the same time. He had to disappear from one place and travel to another (send his consciousness there) place AS SHOWN.

Everything you guys are saying is contradicted by what is shown in the comic. Bobby never performed any showing displaying that he was even in 2 places at the same time. But rather, the opposite (he was at 1 place at a time but can see and also influence other places in the world).

Originally posted by h1a8
You just proven my point. Bobby was different from his clones. If Bobby was literally everywhere (instead of just only having influence and being able to see everywhere) then his clones would have been exactly him. But they weren't.
If my arms and legs are in one room and I'm (my head and soul) is in another then I'm not in the room where my arms and legs are. I'm defining the I as a soul. Bobby's soul is in one place at a time, just like everyone else's in Marvel.

False, he can sense inside and control water everywhere. That's like being there. He can send himself (physical representation) anywhere. His existence (soul) was at 1 place at a time. We know this because his clones were DIFFERENT them himself.
If he could be everywhere in the literal sense then his clones would have been exactly him. But they weren't.
Also, it was shown to take a few seconds from Bobby travel. He could have instantly been at 2 places at the same time. He had to disappear from one place and travel to another (send his consciousness there) place AS SHOWN.

Everything you guys are saying is contradicted by what is shown in the comic. Bobby never performed any showing displaying that he was even in 2 places at the same time. But rather, the opposite (he was at 1 place at a time but can see and also influence other places in the world).

Okay but how does relate to iceman losing
He can just move if that body is destroyed and maybe en route to another just freeze the flash
I can't see how he loses

Also when Thor strikes Bobby with lightning you see that Bobby is in pain and stunned. If Bobby was everywhere then you could just lightning any water anywhere on Earth to hurt Bobby.
And don't forget the fact that it was shown that Bobby and the go back into the snow in order to travel. If he was everywhere then he wouldn't need to do this.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Okay but how does relate to iceman losing
He can just move if that body is destroyed and maybe en route to another just freeze the flash
I can't see how he loses

If Flash can destroy his body instantly (before he can move his consciousness elsewhere) then Bobby will be dead. Bobby's consciousness cannot exist as random atoms (outside moisture).

Bobby at least stalemates since he has no way to even affect Flash.
So if Flash can't win then never can Bobby.

How do you know that destroying his body instantly win kill him?
He's been shown to reform himself

Because Flash would stop him before his consciousness can jump, is the argument I think.