Originally posted by Galan007
AFAIK, Bobby's own consciousness is in control of his own powers. He doesn't get his perceptions sped up to Flash-level simply by virtue of his essence(in a manner of speaking) existing inside Flash as water molecules... Unless you have a scan stating that his perceptions fluctuate in accordance with the specific h2o he embodies at any given time? On that note, is there a scan which states that Bobby actually does embody the water molecules within every living being(the panel you posted on the first page doesn't say this)..? Legit question.Anyway, yes, Bobby may potentially have total control over the water molecules within Flash. However, he still has to consciously 'think' or 'will' in order to realize that power/control. IOW, Flash still operates at Flash-level; Bobby still operates at Bobby-level... Unless he has taken control over the water within a being instantly(in the literal sense) on panel? Then it just becomes more of a quick-draw, I guess. /shrug
Either way, remember that Bobby is contending with a being who has calculated infinite possibilities, instantly... A being who is used to routinely fighting a rogue whose tech can generate temperatures below Absolute Zero... A being who has complete control over every single atom of his body.
Don't think it's clear-cut for Bobby by any means, tbh.
i'm not saying he EMBODIES all moisture--i'm saying his consciousness EXISTS in all moisture. his consciousness has no...home-base in this state. it's why jean couldn't find him to tp him--his consciousness existed everywhere at the same time. so destroying his body, speed stealing his body, his infinite reaction time--none of it would matter because his consciousness is diffuse. that is what the scan was intended to show (he's in the water EVERYWHERE, at the same time, in that moment).
even if flash could somehow foresee something like that (and i'm not sure he could since he wouldn't really know what bobby was capable of) there is literally nothing he could do about it i don't think. unless he had a way to survive removing all the water from his body, he's gonna lose this because it's not a race--bobby is already part of him, like he's part of ALL water, in all forms, everywhere. from his frame of reference it might take eternity to be frozen, or have all the water in him drained--ie, for him to die--but in OUR frame of reference it would happen very quickly.
least imo. 🙂
Originally posted by spetznazSurfer is faster than this
Anywhere, here is a link where he saves an entire city by transporting over 500,000 people, carrying them in twos and threes, to a safe location 35 miles away (meaning each trip he goes out 35 miles and goes back 35 miles to the city, searches for people, grabs 2 or 3, and then runs 35 miles away and returns to do the same over and over until 500,000 people are evacuated). Oh, and he does this within 0.00001 microseconds. While a nuclear weapon is exploding.
Originally posted by leonidasFair enough. Still don't see him as beyond Flash's ability to deal with, given his feats... But to each his own. 👆
i'm not saying he EMBODIES all moisture--i'm saying his consciousness EXISTS in all moisture. his consciousness has no...home-base in this state. it's why jean couldn't find him to tp him--his consciousness existed everywhere at the same time. so destroying his body, speed stealing his body, his infinite reaction time--none of it would matter because his consciousness is diffuse. that is what the scan was intended to show (he's in the water EVERYWHERE, at the same time, in that moment).even if flash could somehow foresee something like that (and i'm not sure he could since he wouldn't really know what bobby was capable of) there is literally nothing he could do about it i don't think. unless he had a way to survive removing all the water from his body, he's gonna lose this because it's not a race--bobby is already part of him, like he's part of ALL water, in all forms, everywhere. from his frame of reference it might take eternity to be enough, or have all the water in him drained--ie, for him to die--but in OUR frame of reference it would happen very quickly.
least imo. 🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
i don't see anyway flash can win this given that for the sake of this fight, bobby literally exists inside ALL forms of moisture simultaneously. he doesn't need to shift his consciousness to other places--as the scan showed--he's IN those places already.....
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not saying he EMBODIES all moisture--i'm saying his consciousness EXISTS in all moisture. his consciousness has no...home-base in this state. it's why jean couldn't find him to tp him--his consciousness existed everywhere at the same time. so destroying his body, speed stealing his body, his infinite reaction time--none of it would matter because his consciousness is diffuse. that is what the scan was intended to show (he's in the water EVERYWHERE, at the same time, in that moment).even if flash could somehow foresee something like that (and i'm not sure he could since he wouldn't really know what bobby was capable of) there is literally nothing he could do about it i don't think. unless he had a way to survive removing all the water from his body, he's gonna lose this because it's not a race--bobby is already part of him, like he's part of ALL water, in all forms, everywhere. from his frame of reference it might take eternity to be frozen, or have all the water in him drained--ie, for him to die--but in OUR frame of reference it would happen very quickly.
least imo. 🙂
Thank you Leonidas, this is one of the reasons why i came up with this thread. If i didn't believe Bobby had no chance to win especially against OP Wally or Barry, i wouldn't have bothered to create this thread.
Originally posted by h1a8
Great points. But I think flash would only have to deal with Bobby operating inside battle distance. Bobby can't exist and operate outside battle distance per the rules. I doubt that full potential Bobby exists inside every living thing (that has moisture) in all universes or in his own. He may have consciousness without his whole planet though. The term everywhere can hyperbole mean planetwide.
It needs to be proven that bobby can kill anyone from any universe that is composed of moisture. If so, then Basically he can kill movie Thor while being in 616 universe just for shits and giggles. This is simply not true. His consciousness is probably worldwide (not necessarily universe wide nor omniverse wide)Also without moisture Bobby cannot exist or operate. Moisture can be destroyed by transmutation.
Originally posted by psycho gundamProve it
Surfer is faster than this
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not saying he EMBODIES all moisture--i'm saying his consciousness EXISTS in all moisture. his consciousness has no...home-base in this state. it's why jean couldn't find him to tp him--his consciousness existed everywhere at the same time. so destroying his body, speed stealing his body, his infinite reaction time--none of it would matter because his consciousness is diffuse. that is what the scan was intended to show (he's in the water EVERYWHERE, at the same time, in that moment).even if flash could somehow foresee something like that (and i'm not sure he could since he wouldn't really know what bobby was capable of) there is literally nothing he could do about it i don't think. unless he had a way to survive removing all the water from his body, he's gonna lose this because it's not a race--bobby is already part of him, like he's part of ALL water, in all forms, everywhere. from his frame of reference it might take eternity to be frozen, or have all the water in him drained--ie, for him to die--but in OUR frame of reference it would happen very quickly.
least imo. 🙂
Bobby is not part of flash. Flash is from a different universe. And the moisture in flash's body is controlled by the speed force. That means Bobby wouldn't be able to affect flash even if we was a part of him.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Problem with Bobby is that he keeps regressing...Basically, there needs to be an Omega Level telepath around tampering with Drake's mind, otherwise he'll go full retard. As he's done plenty of times in his beautiful "career".
Same with johnny and a shitload of characters
Originally posted by hutchy1345no I gave a counter argument to Leo's argument. It has to be shot down before Iceman can stalemate (he can't win).
So basically iceman wins
Originally posted by maxivitopoweThat's irrelevant. Leo is suggesting that his consciousness is in beings from other universes (the omniverse). I disagree that his consciousness spands more than planet wide. I also disagree that his consciousness is in the makeup of living beings (not that he can't freeze living beings).
being in another universe/dimension has not affected him using his powers
In the scan it says he can be in the snow and ice and water everywhere on the Earth. It doesn't say he can be in vapor EVERYWHERE. Also it doesn't say he can be inside living things. This is a pure stretch to believe so. Flash wins with ease as he can destroy his consciousness or mute him inside the battlefield.