Orlando Terrorist Attack

Originally posted by Lestov16
See but again, what do we do about it? Immigration reform won't matter because this guy is an American. If we try profiling based on religion, we're violating Muslim's constitutional right to religion. What do we do?

We start by not allowing pieces of shit on suspected terror lists legally purchase weapons.

If profiling would prevent shit like this then I would say yes profile.

Oh and we stop ignoring the elephant in the room with things like this when it comes to Islam.

I think a more intense background check ouggt to be done on those wishing to purchase firearms. As a further precaution, I believe periodic psych evaluations should be conducted to prevent mentally unstable individuals from owning weapons.

Also believe gun owners should have different classes of licenses. For example, an AR-15 rifle should not be available for purchase to anyone who has not passed a standard hunting safety course. Unless you are a hunter, you have no business even owning a semi automatic rifle.

I still believe the ban on assault weapons is a slippery slope when it comes to gun control. Someone who wants to get an assault rifle will get one legally or illegally, while those that could previously purchase them legally won't be able to anymore. Then after a few more shootings with hand guns, there will be a call to restrict or even downright ban hand guns... At least I think that's a slippery slope but at the same time doing nothing about assault weapons is also unacceptable. I still wonder why the Democrats are yapping about gun control instead of focusing on the terrorism aspect.

Most firearms used in shootings aren't assault weapons anyways. So banning assault weapons wouldn't actually make a drastic impact on gun violence. Even if you could guarantee nobody would get an assault weapon illegally.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
I think a more intense background check ouggt to be done on those wishing to purchase firearms. As a further precaution, I believe periodic psych evaluations should be conducted to prevent mentally unstable individuals from owning weapons.

Also believe gun owners should have different classes of licenses. For example, an AR-15 rifle should not be available for purchase to anyone who has not passed a standard hunting safety course. Unless you are a hunter, you have no business even owning a semi automatic rifle.

This us what the democrats have been trying to do, but the NRA overhauled and strawmanned it to make it sound like democrats want to disarm every citizen and entirely strip their second amendment rights. But in reality the "unjust laws" the NRA protests are just legislated forms of your gun control plan.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I still believe the ban on assault weapons is a slippery slope when it comes to gun control. Someone who wants to get an assault rifle will get one legally or illegally, while those that could previously purchase them legally won't be able to anymore. Then after a few more shootings with hand guns, there will be a call to restrict or even downright ban hand guns... At least I think that's a slippery slope but at the same time doing nothing about assault weapons is also unacceptable. I still wonder why the Democrats are yapping about gun control instead of focusing on the terrorism aspect.

Because the gun control aspect is easier to solve.

I think what gets most left out (by both the left and right), yet seems most important is the homophobic aspect. Like this guy targeted a gay bar.

I suppose we will learn more about his motivations (right now the reports seem all over the place, from him being homophobic, having ties to ISIS, having partied at the gay bar in the past, domestic violence, etc. etc.) in the future, but the choice of target seems to reveal a lot about at least some of them.

Of course topics like gun control, terrorism control, etc. are also important, but when talking about what people seem to try to avoid most seems to be the homophobia issue (like with people only talking about gun control, or this being Islamic terrorism targeting the West)

We spent the entire first half of the thread arguing about the homophobia aspect.

Because the gun control aspect is easier to solve.

I think what gets most left out (by both the left and right), yet seems most important is the homophobic aspect. Like this guy targeted a gay bar.

The primary issue is terrorism. The secondary issue is the motivation behind said terrorism.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Because the gun control aspect is easier to solve.

Gun control is not easy to solve. Sure, we can enact legislation to prevent the sales of certain types of semi automatic weapons. That may eliminate the opportunity for aome would be nightclub shooters, but it is not a fix all. Semi-automatic weapons are available on the street. They can also be inherited from previous generations. The point is we can't really control what's already out on the streets. Think about all the daily homicides in the bigger cities. These types of murders go unnoticed by the national media. A lot of these murders are used by weapons obtained illegally. Former felons commit meaning of these murders. As prior felons, they cannot legally own firearms, so they must obtain them illegally, by family and friends, or by inheritance.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think what gets most left out (by both the left and right), yet seems most important is the homophobic aspect. Like this guy targeted a gay bar.

I suppose we will learn more about his motivations (right now the reports seem all over the place, from him being homophobic, having ties to ISIS, having partied at the gay bar in the past, domestic violence, etc. etc.) in the future, but the choice of target seems to reveal a lot about at least some of them.

Of course topics like gun control, terrorism control, etc. are also important, but when talking about what people seem to try to avoid most seems to be the homophobia issue (like with people only talking about gun control, or this being Islamic terrorism targeting the West)

Where do you think it is likely he was taught this homophobia? Where did it come from? Would you say it's silly for one to assume it stems from his religion that has a hate hard on for gays?

If he was taught this hate, it makes sense why he targeted them. Hell if he himself is gay it makes even more sense, he's been told to hate something that he is and indoctrinated by this religion.

Or is the implication going to now be this had nothing to do with Islam and he's just a self hater?

I mean I've seen reports saying he called 911 and pledged his allegiance to ISIS. Doesn't that more or less give us a big big hint as to why he did this?

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Gun control is not easy to solve. Sure, we can enact legislation to prevent the sales of certain types of semi automatic weapons. That may eliminate the opportunity for aome would be nightclub shooters, but it is not a fix all. Semi-automatic weapons are available on the street. They can also be inherited from previous generations. The point is we can't really control what's already out on the streets. Think about all the daily homicides in the bigger cities. These types of murders go unnoticed by the national media. A lot of these murders are used by weapons obtained illegally. Former felons commit meaning of these murders. As prior felons, they cannot legally own firearms, so they must obtain them illegally, by family and friends, or by inheritance.

I think there's some room for Gun Control laws to be stricter. I mean, this guy had been investigated in the past for comments he made implying he had terrorist ties (more than one case) and had a history of abuse. Probably shouldn't be the kind of guy that can legally buy an assault rifle.

I mean, we've got ISIS reps and terrorist leaders on video telling their supporters "Hey, the US has made it WAY EASY to get weapons to go kill their people. Get to it."

Homophobia may have been the catalyst for the shooting. However a mental illness is the underlying cause. Mentally sane people do not go around committing mass murders like that.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Homophobia may have been the catalyst for the shooting. However a mental illness is the underlying cause. Mentally sane people do not go around committing mass murders like that.

Yea I don't buy that argument, which has been dissected decades ago. You're essentially saying all murderers are insane and thereby, not really responsible for their own actions because of a mental illness. I don't think it's insane to murder at all. This guy was probably misguided and brainwashed but to simply claim mental insanity? Please.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yea I don't buy that argument, which has been dissected decades ago. You're essentially saying all murderers are insane and thereby, not really responsible for their own actions because of a mental illness. I don't think it's insane to murder at all. This guy was probably misguided and brainwashed but to simply claim mental insanity? Please.

For me calling him merely "misguided" is just as bad as saying he is insane. He was a religious fanatic brought up by this religion of "peace".

For a religion of peace there is an awful lot of hate in their book.

Misguided does not mean insane so it's not nearly as bad or even close to being the same. Insanity implies a mental disease. Misguided just means misguided, which isn't an excuse.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yea I don't buy that argument, which has been dissected decades ago. You're essentially saying all murderers are insane and thereby, not really responsible for their own actions because of a mental illness. I don't think it's insane to murder at all. This guy was probably misguided and brainwashed but to simply claim mental insanity? Please.

That's still prove my point. If you can be brainwashed to commit a vile Act like that you must have been mentally off-balance in the first place.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
That's still prove my point. If you can be brainwashed to commit a vile Act like that you must have been mentally off-balance in the first place.

It's a cop out. The simple fact that the guy single handidly masterminded this massacre by scouring it for weeks, disproves insanity.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
It's a cop out. The simple fact that the guy single handidly masterminded this massacre by scouring it for weeks, disproves insanity.

Okay what else could cause a person to do something like this. No religion in this world could ever get me to commit a crime like that. I would separate myself from anyone or any religion that asked me to do that. Maybe insanity is the wrong word. However, mentally sound people just do not make choices like that. The vast majority of people that we pass every day on the street would never do something like that. Why is this guy and others like him different?

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yea I don't buy that argument, which has been dissected decades ago. You're essentially saying all murderers are insane and thereby, not really responsible for their own actions because of a mental illness. I don't think it's insane to murder at all. This guy was probably misguided and brainwashed but to simply claim mental insanity? Please.