Originally posted by MS Warehouse [b]You have a problem. Most people are focused on the terrorism aspect first and possible homophobia second. You seem to be focused on the homophobia aspect first and terrorism second.
Because the homophobia aspect is more important. Funny any other time, following the crowd is being a sheep, but I guess herd mentality is in now.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Because the homophobia aspect is more important. Funny any other time, following the crowd is being a sheep, but I guess herd mentality is in now.
No, the homophobia aspect is never more important than the terrorism aspect. If that were the case, you'd need to treat each case of terrorism within a bubble of who the victims were, and that's idiotic. It was an act of terrorism first and possible homophobia second. The second part of your post is so dumb, it needs no addressing.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Excuse me? I never sided with the violence of BLM. I sided with their ideological cause, not the violence done in their name. That's like saying all Christians are violent because extremists murders gays in Uganda, or all Muslims are violent because extremists commit terrorist attacks, or that all Trump supporters/protesters are violent because a few commit assault, or that the United States Military is evil just because of the My Lai Massacre. Or that all whites are bad because of slavery.....The examples can go on and on. Main point is every ideology has extremists and opportunists. That should never be used to judge the intrinsic merit of the ideology itself. It is this generalizing that led us into our current political climate, people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of government vs people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of capitalism.
So capitalism, conservatism, Catholics, trumpists and white males are responsible for this attack.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So why is it that only Muslims become terrorist on such a large scale?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/omar-alnatour/muslims-are-not-terrorist_b_8718000.html
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
No, the homophobia aspect is never more important than the terrorism aspect. If that were the case, you'd need to treat each case of terrorism within a bubble of who the victims were, and that's idiotic. It was an act of terrorism first and possible homophobia second. The second part of your post is so dumb, it needs no addressing.
I dont get your point. You say it's an act of terrorism, but against WHO? Do you care about the victims or why they were targeted?
Originally posted by Lestov16
My apologies. My main point is that the lesson that should be learned here is that religious homophobia of any Abrahamic religion is wrong, and the lesson is not simply "MOREZ PROOF DATZ MUZLIMS IZ EVUL" that TI seems to believe, because all religions have homophobic scripture and dogma that leads to intolerance (such as Kim Davis) which eventually devolves into mass murder as it did here. TI just wants to attack the Islamic homophobia whereas all religious homophobia should be in question.
No, the lesson here is that terrorism is wrong and that prejudice of all kinds (not just homophobia, but all prejudice) is wrong. That includes prejudice against a religion you don't like just because you don't like it. Do not lump in an entire religion that is NOT even involved in this vile act and use generalizations due to certain scriptural similarities (that are interpreted, accepted and practiced VERY differently between the religions and the different individuals that practice them).
What you did was prejudiced and hypocritical and insulting.
Originally posted by Lestov16
I dont get your point. You say it's an act of terrorism, but against WHO? Do you care about the victims or why they were targeted?
You don't get my point? Take any terror act the past 12 months. Using your logic, we have to say one was homophobic, one was revenge against office workers, etc. But in reality, terrorism is all encompassing. Islamic terrorism is geared towards the west, towards the "enemies of Islam". That's the main priority. The fact that this happened at a gay bar, the other one happened at an office, is secondary to the terrorism designed to garner attention. I care about the victims here like I did about the office victims in California, 9/11 etc.. I don't start screaming "homophobia!" the fact that this particular act of terror happened in a gay bar. It could happen in a black/mexican/jewish ghetto and it would still be an act of terrorism. Whoever they decided to target this time around is secondary to it being an act of terrorism.
No, the lesson here is that terrorism is wrong and that prejudice of all kinds (not just homophobia, but all prejudice) is wrong. That includes prejudice against a religion you don't like just because you don't like it. Do not lump in an entire religion that is NOT even involved in this vile act and use generalizations due to certain scriptural similarities (that are interpreted, accepted and practiced VERY differently between the religions and the different individuals that practice them).What you did was prejudiced and hypocritical and insulting.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
No, the lesson here is that terrorism is wrong and that prejudice of all kinds (not just homophobia, but all prejudice) is wrong. That includes prejudice against a religion you don't like just because you don't like it. Do not lump in an entire religion that is NOT even involved in this vile act and use generalizations due to certain scriptural similarities (that are interpreted, accepted and practiced VERY differently between the religions and the different individuals that practice them).What you did was prejudiced and hypocritical and insulting.
You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.
Originally posted by Lestov16
You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.
Because we're talking about Islam, and you start throwing around other religions. When Christians decide to bring the Crusades back to the 21st century, we can begin to criticize them just as much.
Originally posted by Lestov16
You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.
Quote me saying all Muslims are bad, shameful liar.
You tired to compare this attack to Kim Davis you sniveling coward.
Originally posted by Lestov16
You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.
I'm not tackling any intolerance of any religion. If I did, pls quote where I did as I don't recall posting anything about intolerance of Islam in this thread.
I'm just specifically tackling YOUR intolerance towards MY religion, however.
And yes, you basically implying that there is a causality between terrorism and the religious scriptures that we believe in (w/c is, btw, essentially the core of our beliefs) is you basically saying Catholicism is "bad" (if not evil). It's funny that you would try to deny it now.
As if saying "you believe in a book that has a direct causality to hate and that same hate leads to tragedies like this" doesn't strongly imply that. SMFH.
"you believe in a book that has a direct causality to hate and that same hate leads to tragedies like this"
No, more like you believe in a book that can bring happiness or adversity based on how it's interpreted, and unfortunately there's a lot of people who interpret it to bring adversity. This can be said of any religion.
Put it like this. I'm not saying it's not okay to believe in God, just not a homophobic God. And if scripture says God is homophobic, it's clearly not God's scripture. All religions have the perfect message of God buried beneath the flawed messages of man. This is what we must overcome.
Originally posted by Lestov16
"you believe in a book that has a direct causality to hate and that same hate leads to tragedies like this"No, more like you believe in a book that can bring happiness or adversity based on how it's interpreted, and unfortunately there's a lot of people who interpret it to bring adversity. This can be said of any religion.
Uhhh, yeah. At NO POINT during your primary post (w/c is the point of contention) nor in the replies that followed was the concept of unique individual interpretation ever been brought up. Had it been, we wouldn't be having this debate.
This is your exact post:
Originally posted by Lestov16
this will show the world that the homophobia of the Quran and the Bible only leads to hate, which leads to tragedies like this.
That is direct causality, not "individual interpretation". Maybe you don't know how to communicate your point properly or maybe you're just backpedalling. /shrug
Regardless, I (and every Catholic/Christian here) would like an apology either way.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Put it like this. I'm not saying it's not okay to believe in God, just not a homophobic God. And if scripture says God is homophobic, it's clearly not God's scripture. All religions have the perfect message of God buried beneath the flawed messages of man. This is what we must overcome.
Excuse me? Ppl are allowed to believe what they want. Just not act upon it that would deny others their rights or cause harm to others. And God isn't "homophobic", that implies a fear or hatred of homosexuals. Homosexuality isn't condemned. Homosexuals are welcomed in the Church. It's just the act of homosexual sex and marriage isn't allowed in the religion (but neither is masturbation and premarital sex). But guess what? One can always LEAVE the religion to practice one's beliefs/lifestyle (OMG, what a novel concept!). Or stay and feel guilty and do penance, but that's how it is and we've accepted that as Catholics.
Religion is not compulsory, after all, unless you live in certain countries (and that is actually something we can criticize about the COUNTRY not the religion).
Originally posted by Lestov16
You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.
Quote me saying all Muslims are bad, shameful liar.
You tired to compare this attack to Kim Davis you sniveling coward.