Originally posted by Cogito
Could have sworn it was just ZH Parallax wandering through time mmmI'd go back and look if I cared, which I don't.
I'm sticking with ZH Parallax > Ion I > WL Kyle, with GoL Hal somewhere around there.
Zero Hour 0: Parallax tries creating existence. Is defeated, most of his power depleted.
GL 0: Kyle destroys Oa, denying him the last reserves of his power.
GL v3 64: Ganthet gives his power to Hal.
Final Night: Hal ignites the sun and dies. Most of his power lies dormant in the sun which is the power of CPB.
GL Circle of Fire: Kyle starts to absorb most of the power of Parallax left over in the sun and creates Oblivion.
GL Legacy 1: The rest of the power of Parallax is used to create Oa again.
GL v3 144-150: Kyle becomes Ion and restores CPB and Guardians.
And White Lantern is above pretty much Ion I or GoL. He has the power of entire emotional spectrum and actual feats to show it.
👆
Originally posted by abhilegend
And White Lantern is above pretty much Ion I or GoL. He has the power of entire emotional spectrum and actual feats to show it.
It's like saying Celestials/IG/LT/Beyonders/Etc. are as powerful now as they were in the good ole' days. On paper perhaps nothing has changed, but you know that's a joke.
Originally posted by Cogito
an Ion host is now a joke compared to Ion I.Come on, I don't need to say that.
God of Light was just as powerful as Ion I with the power of CPB. Volthoom nearly unmade all the universe from past to future by tapping into the emotional spectrum.
Parallax alone gives you the power comparable to ****ing Spectre and six entities give you power to restore entire creation.
What would you want out of them?
Originally posted by abhilegendThey are one in the same(explained below)...
Was it anywhere stated that the Life Equation was equal or greater than the emotional spectrum?
It was stated that the Life Equation had literally merged with Kyle when he returned from beyond the Source Wall:
http://i.imgur.com/qfn4BCA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ELGYrPU.jpg
*The Guardians stated that Kyle had already used said power to reshape reality. They also stated that if you change the Life Equation, you change reality itself -- and because of this, WL Kyle was capable of anything.
That's why Highfather noted that the cumulative emotional energies/Life Equation represented the greatest power in the multiverse:
That's why Highfather also stated that said power would give him the ability to shape the very clay of existence:
And as we know: Kyle = the White Light = the Life Equation, as Highfather could not *just* remove the Life Equation from the White Ring. He had to remove *both* or *nothing*, because they are one in the same:
http://i.imgur.com/Z1nvPNg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oTUvEC7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AdbGC2Z.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3zpkz9D.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WkU7hTr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TFYRjwI.jpg
And to reiterate: this also gave Highfather enough power to trump Darkseid+Apokolips(and Darkseid alone is universal+):
http://i.imgur.com/EGQPQ8U.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hIi7wNw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/L3qPIl8.jpg
Highfather: "You are originally from Apokolips. Does Darkseid have anything that could stand against this?"
Malhedron: "No. I have never seen anything with that much power."
I maintain that WL Kyle had power and didn't know how to use it, whereas Ion knew exactly how to do mess with space/time.
Ion: "For me, for what I am now -- time is not set in stone. It's pliable. It's not a fabric that will unravel if I pull on a string. I hold all the threads now, Hal. I can change what's happened without changing what will be. "
This is about *talking* versus *doing*. Not that I disagree with his boasts, but Ion I still only *talked* about operating on a universal scale. WL Kyle actually *did* operate on a universal scale.
If ZH Parallax had only ever *talked* about wanting to destroy/recreate the whole of DC, but never actually *did*, I certainly wouldn't put him in the same tier that I currently do -- and that's because doing>talking. Feats>statements.
I mean, the Guardians *stated* that Ion II = Ion I:
http://i.imgur.com/LbEWx3u.jpg
"Once before, Rayner held such power. He used it well."
They also *heavily* implied they were equal on a separate occasion:
http://i.imgur.com/gPW19YZ.jpg
"What you have become has enabled us to place within you the spark of ALL that we Guardians are, ALL that the Green Lantern Corps is. You are the safeguard. Should we or the Corps ever be destroyed again, it is within you to bring about our rebirth..."
...But no one in their right mind would actually put them in the same tier, because statements just cannot always supersede feats. In that respect, Ion I >>> Ion II.
Originally posted by Galan007
They are one in the same(explained below)...It was stated that the Life Equation had literally merged with Kyle when he returned from beyond the Source Wall:
http://i.imgur.com/qfn4BCA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ELGYrPU.jpg
*The Guardians stated that Kyle had already used said power to reshape reality. They also stated that if you change the Life Equation, you change reality itself -- and because of this, WL Kyle was capable of anything.That's why Highfather noted that the cumulative emotional energies/Life Equation represented the greatest power in the multiverse:
That's why Highfather also stated that said power would give him the ability to shape the very clay of existence:
And as we know: Kyle = the White Light = the Life Equation, as Highfather could not *just* remove the Life Equation from the White Ring. He had to remove *both* or *nothing*, because they are one in the same:
http://i.imgur.com/Z1nvPNg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oTUvEC7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AdbGC2Z.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3zpkz9D.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WkU7hTr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TFYRjwI.jpgAnd to reiterate: this also gave Highfather enough power to trump Darkseid+Apokolips(and Darkseid alone is universal+):
with that much power." [/B]
http://i.imgur.com/EGQPQ8U.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hIi7wNw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/L3qPIl8.jpg
Highfather: "You are originally from Apokolips. Does Darkseid have anything that could stand against this?"
Malhedron: "No. I have never seen [b]anything
Shows just how powerful emotional spectrum is. And people thought GLs have been nerfed.
😂
^ 👆
I also just realized that Volthoom seems to have been 'retconned' into the proverbial "Hand of Creation" that originally spawned the DCU...
Volthoom arrived right after the Guardians witnessed the Hand of Creation... But upon closer inspection, they noticed that it was wearing a GL ring:
*Note the GL ring on the middle finger of a right hand.
Full scene:
http://i.imgur.com/cOpIggY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dMp3DG7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lVeoFO4.jpg
In a nutshell: the Guardians witnessed the Hand birthing creation, noted a GL ring on the Hand, their instrumentation inextricably shattered, and *poof* Volthoom(in his original/human form) arrived. He then taught the Guardians of the emotional spectrum and convinced them to purge all emotion from their beings--thereby creating the First Lantern(and empowering himself) by proxy:
http://i.imgur.com/0w07Crs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9ZwPru3.jpg
Coincidence? Hardly.
We later learned that peak Volthoom had harnessed the power of the emotional spectrum with the intent of "unwinding the fabric of history" for his own purposes:
Volthoom then literally pulled the first(and most powerful) GL ring from inside of Ganthet:
*Note that he places it on the middle finger of his right hand.
This panel makes it clearer to see the ring placement:
*Again: Middle finger. Right hand.
Why is this important? Because when he used Hal as a focal point, Volthoom began unraveling ALL history, starting at the beginning... He became the Hand of Creation:
*Note the GL ring on the middle finger of his right hand.
Full scene:
http://i.imgur.com/Bawjtq8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HHXgPoY.jpg
How do I know Volthoom was *actually* collapsing/altering the timestream? Because WL Kyle could literally feel it happening:
The 'retconned' Hand was featured again in a completely different arc, and described as the force that originally spawned the multiverse as well as the Old(and New) Gods:
*Note a ring on the middle finger of a right hand.
Full scene:
http://i.imgur.com/OvgYg3k.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cQGHFHq.jpg
Moreover, Volthoom stated that he already traveled to the beginning of time and has seen his destiny:
So it is not only my opinion that Volthoom has been retconned into being responsible for generating the Hand of Creation, but I believe he was also responsible for sending his original/human-self back in time, in order to perpetually repeat the process of his transformation. Essentially, he was his own creator.
Thoughts?
Originally posted by Galan007
^ 👆I also just realized that Volthoom seems to have been 'retconned' into the proverbial "Hand of Creation" that originally spawned the DCU...
Volthoom arrived right after the Guardians witnessed the Hand of Creation... But upon closer inspection, they noticed that it was wearing a GL ring:
*Note the GL ring on the middle finger of a right hand.
Full scene:
http://i.imgur.com/cOpIggY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dMp3DG7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lVeoFO4.jpgIn a nutshell: the Guardians witnessed the Hand birthing creation, noted a GL ring on the Hand, their instrumentation inextricably shattered, and *poof* Volthoom(in his original/human form) arrived. He then taught the Guardians of the emotional spectrum and convinced them to purge all emotion from their beings--thereby creating the First Lantern(and empowering himself) by proxy:
http://i.imgur.com/0w07Crs.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/9ZwPru3.jpg
Coincidence? Hardly.
We later learned that peak Volthoom had harnessed the power of the emotional spectrum with the intent of "unwinding the fabric of history" for his own purposes:
Volthoom then literally pulled the first(and most powerful) GL ring from inside of Ganthet:
*Note that he places it on the middle finger of his right hand.
This panel makes it clearer to see the ring placement:
*Again: Middle finger. Right hand.
Why is this important? Because when he used Hal as a focal point, Volthoom began unraveling ALL history, starting at the beginning... He became the Hand of Creation:
*Note the GL ring on the middle finger of his right hand.
Full scene:
http://i.imgur.com/Bawjtq8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HHXgPoY.jpgHow do I know Volthoom was *actually* collapsing/altering the timestream? Because WL Kyle could literally feel it happening:
The 'retconned' Hand was featured again in a completely different arc, and described as the force that originally spawned the multiverse as well as the Old(and New) Gods:
*Note a ring on the middle finger of a right hand.
Full scene:
http://i.imgur.com/OvgYg3k.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cQGHFHq.jpgMoreover, Volthoom stated that he already traveled to the beginning of time and has seen his destiny:
So it is not only my opinion that Volthoom has been retconned into being responsible for generating the Hand of Creation, but I believe he was also responsible for sending his original/human-self back in time, in order to perpetually repeat the process of his transformation. Essentially, he was his own creator.
Thoughts?
That is just ****ing insanely powerful.
And Volthoom was literally powered by Guardians. Some trans level beings they are.
👆
Tbf, the Guardians were massively depowered when they purged themselves of all emotional energy(energy that Volthoom absorbed.)
Afterward, the Guardians no longer had access to those emotions, thus no longer had access to that power. This is why they had to use Volthoom's power to create/fuel their Third Army, for example.
In essence, they purposefully neutered themselves all those billionS of years ago, because they thought emotions were dangerous.
Originally posted by Galan007
Tbf, the Guardians were massively depowered when they purged themselves of all emotional energy(energy that Volthoom absorbed.)Afterward, the Guardians no longer had access to those emotions, thus no longer had access to that power. This is why they had to use Volthoom's power to create/fuel their Third Army, for example.
In essence, they purposefully neutered themselves all those billionS of years ago, because they thought emotions were dangerous.
Only Ganthet and Krona had their full power and we saw how powerful they were. Krona casually stomping all emotional entities is just insane on thinking.
Not even someone like Galactus could have done that IMO. That's a legitimate abstract level shit right there.
Originally posted by Galan007
This is about *talking* versus *doing*. Not that I disagree with his boasts, but Ion I still only *talked* about operating on a universal scale. WL Kyle actually *did* operate on a universal scale.
/shrug
Originally posted by CogitoBut Ion I never did 'casually' manipulate reality, though. He just talked about his ability to do so. WL Kyle actually renewed the fundamental fabric of creation, AND had the complete power of EVERY emotional entity/spectrum.
IMO releasing the entities on the other side =/= control enough to compete with those who can casually manipulate reality, even if the level of power is greater./shrug
I really see no way Ion I would beat him in a battle, tbh... Especially considering they are the same person, thus their wills are obviously equal. WL Kyle just has WAAAY more power under his control, imo.
Originally posted by kevdudeAll of the Guardians(save Ganthet and Krona) purged themselves of all emotion billions of years ago, because they thought the emotional spectrum/energy was dangerous. Volthoom then absorbed that cumulative emotional energy:
Been awhile since I've read "Wrath of the First Lantern", but Volthoom did what he did when he took control of the Great Heart's power, that is the Guardians at full power, if they had the GH power. I'll have to read the Third Army and WofL stories again.
Heck, the Guardians even severed Ganthet's link to the emotional spectrum immediately after the events of War of the Green Lanterns:
http://i.imgur.com/9FjmQB7.jpg
This fact was corroborated by Volthoom:
http://i.imgur.com/c1Je9h1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CCqMzRO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aIoVrNT.jpg
So yeah, Volthoom was essentially all of the Guardians wrapped up in one -- IF they'd opted to retain their full powers, of course.
1) Hand of God Ion
2) Zero Hour Parallax
3) White Lantern Kyle
4) God of Light Hal
5) White Lantern Sinestro
the rest....
Hand of God Ion is greater than Parallax. He had the combined power of
Parallax (pre retcon)
original Oans minus Ganthet
Central Power Battery of Oa
Classic Oblivion who was a monster (curbstomped the JL + numerous high level backups, created a red sun that nearly killed Supes, one shot Wonder Woman, was feeding off dark matter to the point where the universe was gonna collapse, powerful mind****ery on a plantery level at the very least with the battery causing everyone on the planet into mass hysteria, controlled an Elemental effortlessly, tanked Martian Vision, Heat vision, JLA beam w/o a scratch, no sold a Supes blitz etc) and every GL power ring in existence. He essentially had all the power of ZH Parallax and then some and he was also omnipresent at least within a universal scale.
In addition to the energy of the CB, ZH Parallax had also absorbed residual energy from COIE -- Ion I obviously did not absorb the latter.
Like I mentioned in my line-up: ZH Parallax was beyond universal -- he inadvertently destroyed and recreated several timelines/universes, before ultimately destroying the mainstream timeline/universe. He then began creating a new universe in his own image, before he was stopped by a host of PIS-ridden characters/tactics(one of which included Corrigan-Spectre.) It was also explicitly noted that Parallax was significantly weakened when he was beaten, yet he still put up that much of a fight. Feat-wise, he was significantly > Ion I.
