Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Well, I''e gotten a good bit softer ever since I stopped hanging out with you guys, so my word choices will be more "PG" for a while. 🙂
Originally posted by Selenial
so u've become an pussy now? 🙂
Originally posted by Aurbere
It's better this way. 😄
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAj26rVWK14
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Considering Sadow's got the same amulets that gave Exar Kun amplified anger and power, I can see Sadow alone sans PIS giving DE Sidious fits. Add in Nadd and Kressh for the distractions could seal the deal.
This generously assumes that the effect would be identical or similar for Sadow as it was for Kun. More tellingly: Sadow's brawl with Ludo Kressh on Korriban, a dark side nexus, while drawing on his power-boosting amulets... gives us a far more conservative depiction of his abilities.
Dude can definitely lay bricks with the best of 'em, but DE!Sidious stomps tbh.
Originally posted by The_TempestThis generously assumes that the effect would be identical or similar for Sadow as it was for Kun. More tellingly: Sadow's brawl with Ludo Kressh on Korriban, a dark side nexus, while drawing on his power-boosting amulets... gives us a far more conservative depiction of his abilities.
Dude can definitely lay bricks with the best of 'em, but DE!Sidious stomps tbh.
Sadow's knowledge and power with the Force put him in position to inherit from Ragnos, a being who kept Vitiate as a baron and whose walking stick was a pocket Nihilus. The same Sadow who enabled Nadd to take over Onderon, Exar Kun to challenge the entire Jedi Order, and who created a Force device which could fight and defeat the Republic on multiple worlds and another which could move the cores of stars.
Considering Sadow and Kressh were dueling for the title and not upright using their near-cosmic level toys to blow each other up at Ragnos' funeral speaks little for their actual combat capabilities. Kun, with little knowledge, became unbeatable with the same amulets and a mere cache of Sadow's knowledge; Sadow, in full possession of both, is an individual to bear feared.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Sadow's knowledge and power with the Force put him in position to inherit from Ragnos, a being who kept Vitiate as a baron and whose walking stick was a pocket Nihilus.
Did you know that if you rearrange the letters M-A-R-K-A-R-A-G-N-O-S, you don't get N-A-G-A-S-A-D-O-W? This also assumes that Ragnos was legitimately stronger than Vitiate in the first place.
Also, Nihilus had the power to drain worlds. The scepter? Not so much. This argument also assumes Sadow has the power of another guy's "walking stick." Which is hell of a leap, even for you.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The same Sadow who enabled Nadd to take over Onderon, Exar Kun to challenge the entire Jedi Order, and who created a Force device which could fight and defeat the Republic on multiple worlds and another which could move the cores of stars.
No one questions Sadow's brilliance as an inventor of toys necessary to compensate for his abyssal inadequacies. What bearing that has on his actual abilities is unknown, since what we've seen of his prowess is remarkably... uninspiring.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Considering Sadow and Kressh were dueling for the title and not upright using their near-cosmic level toys to blow each other up at Ragnos' funeral speaks little for their actual combat capabilities.
Nah. Given that they were dueling for the title and all the power therein, they actually have more incentive to fight their absolute hardest, given the ultimate stakes. 👆
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Kun, with little knowledge, became unbeatable with the same amulets and a mere cache of Sadow's knowledge; Sadow, in full possession of both, is an individual to bear feared.
In light of the fact that Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, and Marka Ragnos are three separate characters, your argument is a bit of a nonstarter.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Did you know that if you rearrange the letters M-A-R-K-A-R-A-G-N-O-S, you don't get N-A-G-A-S-A-D-O-W? This also assumes that Ragnos was legitimately stronger than Vitiate in the first place.
1. Sadow was certainly not Ragnos' equal, but in an empire built on Sith traditions, he was the next in line along with Kressh, who seems inferior.
2. Vitiate doesn't seem to like playing second fiddle to anyone. The assumption is either he decided not to press his luck or realized he was not ready to tackle the Sith Lord. Canon notes that Ragnos was incredibly cunning as well as strong in the Force; Vitiate, who conquered his home planet before he could buy a scratch off ticket, nonetheless bowed to him out of prudence or fear.
Also, Nihilus had the power to drain worlds. The scepter? Not so much.
Nihilus at full power certainly was stronger, but the point remains that Ragnos' sceptre had the same power and implies a strong knowledge and command of the Force. In a society where information is rarely given away free, this is another feather in his hat in terms of Force mastery.
Again, if you think he kept guys like Sadow and Kressh mollified with Game of Thrones' style backroom politics, lol.
This argument also assumes Sadow has the power of another guy's "walking stick." Which is hell of a leap, even for you.
Dat red herring tho.
Where the hell did you get this?
No one questions Sadow's brilliance as an inventor of toys necessary to compensate for his abyssal inadequacies. What bearing that has on his actual abilities is unknown, since what we've seen of his prowess is remarkably... uninspiring.
1. One of his creations directly aids in his combat ability and Force power. A similar amulet on Kressh aids him in using TK to crush a statue because nerdrage. We have the narrator, third person omniscient, noting that it increases Kun's rage and therefore his power exponentially. I posted the scan above.
Even if he was a complete novice in Force powers (which is unlikely given his standing in a martial cut-throat society), he can buff himself up enough to replicate Kun's feats. Kun, who tanks Force Sever from its ancient Jedi creator and murders people with less effort than this reply takes.
2. Low balling Sadow's duel showings pretends like his other abilities exist in a bubble. Sadow and Kressh had only just begun fighting and after a few exchanges Ragnos' spirit told them to go to their corners.
Nah. Given that they were dueling for the title and all the power therein, they actually have more incentive to fight their absolute hardest, given the ultimate stakes. 👆
See above. They hadn't used the full breadth of their powers. Also, we know from TOR (which you didn't play for shit) that ancient Sith have highly organized duels for supremacy, and when those rules are invoked, they minimize certain powers and advantages for the sake of ritualized fairness. See Darth Thanaton/Sith Inquisitor storyline for details.
In light of the fact that Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, and Marka Ragnos are three separate characters, your argument is a bit of a nonstarter.
Actually, Kun's power is directly attributed to Sadow's amulet, which has bearing on the argument at hand. Additionally, Ragnos is a being of immense power and his successors had to likewise be powerful or they could not hope to take power. Sadow seemed entirely confident in his martial abilities and no one argued otherwise. If anything, the other Sith Lords noted he had more Jedi blood in his family tree and was exceptionally powerful as a result. See Golden Age of the Sith for details.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. Sadow was certainly not Ragnos' equal, but in an empire built on Sith traditions, he was the next in line along with Kressh, who seems inferior.
This is uncontested. The idea that Sadow somehow benefits from Ragnos's accomplishments is contested.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
2. Vitiate doesn't seem to like playing second fiddle to anyone. The assumption is either he decided not to press his luck or realized he was not ready to tackle the Sith Lord. Canon notes that Ragnos was incredibly cunning as well as strong in the Force; Vitiate, who conquered his home planet before he could buy a scratch off ticket, nonetheless bowed to him out of prudence or fear.
This is all speculative and in no way requires that Vitiate's inaction owes to Ragnos's Force powers.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Nihilus at full power certainly was stronger, but the point remains that Ragnos' sceptre had the same power and implies a strong knowledge and command of the Force. In a society where information is rarely given away free, this is another feather in his hat in terms of Force mastery.
That Ragnos has a strong knowledge and command of the Force is uncontested.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Again, if you think he kept guys like Sadow and Kressh mollified with Game of Thrones' style backroom politics, lol.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Dat red herring tho.Where the hell did you get this?
The Google.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. One of his creations directly aids in his combat ability and Force power. A similar amulet on Kressh aids him in using TK to crush a statue because nerdrage. We have the narrator, third person omniscient, noting that it increases Kun's rage and therefore his power exponentially. I posted the scan above.
I'm aware that ancient Sith amulets tend to augment their lackluster power. I'm asking for evidence that the amulets would effect Sadow and Kressh the same way in which they do Kun. Especially since, again, they never display power of remotely that magnitude even with the amulets equipped.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Even if he was a complete novice in Force powers (which is unlikely given his standing in a martial cut-throat society), he can buff himself up enough to replicate Kun's feats. Kun, who tanks Force Sever from its ancient Jedi creator and murders people with less effort than this reply takes.
Or perhaps Kun is more powerful than the likes of Kressh and Sadow and so we cannot, in good faith, assume that they would be able to duplicate his feats.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
2. Low balling Sadow's duel showings pretends like his other abilities exist in a bubble. Sadow and Kressh had only just begun fighting and after a few exchanges Ragnos' spirit told them to go to their corners.
Three full pages are dedicated to the duel before Ragnos's specter intervenes. That could be thirty minutes in comic book time.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
See above. They hadn't used the full breadth of their powers. Also, we know from TOR (which you didn't play for shit) that ancient Sith have highly organized duels for supremacy, and when those rules are invoked, they minimize certain powers and advantages for the sake of ritualized fairness. See Darth Thanaton/Sith Inquisitor storyline for details.
Or they did, and their powers just aren't that epic in the grand scheme of things without further technological aid.
Assuming that Sadow and Kressh's duel counts as a legitimate Kaggath, it's hardly the sort of thing that involves pulling punches. There is no evidence to suggest that they weren't legitimately trying to kill each other and substantial evidence to the contrary.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Actually, Kun's power is directly attributed to Sadow's amulet, which has bearing on the argument at hand. Additionally, Ragnos is a being of immense power and his successors had to likewise be powerful or they could not hope to take power. Sadow seemed entirely confident in his martial abilities and no one argued otherwise. If anything, the other Sith Lords noted he had more Jedi blood in his family tree and was exceptionally powerful as a result. See Golden Age of the Sith for details.
And again, Kun and Sadow are two distinct characters with asymmetrical abilities and power levels. The burden is on you to prove that Sadow is capable of duplicating Kun's feats when he is neither stated nor depicted to be capable of them.
Get that Khaleesi shit outta here.
