Dreadnought vs Star Destroyer

Started by quanchi11216 pages

Originally posted by Nai
No, Sir. I'm not going to prove a negative. It is your task to prove, that they can engage targets that aren't in warp speed while they are on warp speed themselves, and since that never happened in the entirety of Star Trek, they can't. And ffs: If you are traveling with a speed of 300,000 km/s+, you just can't fire at a near stationary target, because you would be out of your own weapon range, before even trying to fire. Not to mention, that there is - quite obviously - the problem of the warp drive "warping" space-time around the ship, which would lead to problems to interact with object that are still in the normal space-time.

@Dumbchi0815

What "claim" are you even talking about?

I've presented visual evidence, that the Executor is hit with something that generated an explosion more than a kilometer in diameter in outer space. I further linked you to an official gouvernment source describing the test of nuclear weapons in outer space, leading to my conclusions regarding firepower. Wether you are agreeing with the "nerd math" or not, is entirely irrelevant, because the size of the explosion alone indicates firepower far beyond anything ever seen in Star Trek.

Why can't you see that applying physics is not "my" conclusions, analysis, evidence, but a mere transfer of stuff shown on screen into real-life terms? That you have a problem with that, because Star Wars shits on Star Trek in that regard is, once again, not my problem. And since you are inable to counter any of "my" conclusions, analysis or evidence, but instead just go "Nope." also doesn't look as if you had an argument.

As I thought: Deliberate cherrypicking out of the canon source material from the Star Wars side in an attempt to downtalk Star Wars. The two TV shows "Rebels" and "The Clone Wars" are absolute canon even under the Disney rule.

YouTube video

2:40 onwards. Dropped by a Star Fighter. Boom.

YouTube video

0:55 - 0:58 Droid Starfighters small weapons causing massive explosions.

2:38 - 2:44 more massive explosions caused by single hits of turbolaser fire.

This is all absolute canon.

You use your pitty excuses about "inconsistent portrayals" to mask your attempt to downtalk Star Wars. Let us face the facts here: If portrayals within a work of fiction do differ from eachother, "suspension of disbelief" demands that we first search and in universe explanation for that. That Chewie's bowcaster, with the last shot he fires, doesn't seem to do the damage it does with all other shots before could either be because the power-cell is empty (which would explain why he doesn't shoot a second time to kill Kylo) or Kylo was wearing some form of armor or he was attempting to protect himself with the force, blocking some part of the blast. What we do not do is take that singlular showing to attempt and talk down the weapon itself, which is what you do.

Using that logic on Star Trek would mean, that photon torpedos never hit their targets (because one of the Narada, the most advanced ship seen in Star Trek, does miss and an entire salvo of torpedos launched is easily intercepted by the Enterprise later). Does that sound reasonable for you?

Furthermore, you haven't shown how the explosions in the space-battles are "inconsistant" at all, because - gosh - they aren't.

YouTube video

1:11 - 1:15 Beam weapon out of the Venator class hangar destroys the enemy ship in a rather huge explosion.

YouTube video

Broadside exchange of two ships far weaker than a Star Destroyer, happening after hours of space battle (shields probably gone completely) and even then their armor tanks quite a lot of damage, provided the Venator-class vessel (pre Star Destroyer design) survives this easily. And even here, most of the shots fired come from the smaller guns mounted at the side of the ship. And even those do generate explosions with a diameter of several dozen meters compareable to Star Trek photon torpedos. But not only can those ships tank ].

Oh, really? Everything must add up?

We can go on Han Solo's comment, when h fire[/i] from a Star Destroyer in ANH (losing a deflector shield already). And you may want to consider that the MF is

Did you, by chance, miss the fact that the Imperials manouver their ships into the asteroid field (including the city sized Executor) and, after flying through that asteroid field for hours (or even days?) they lose one ship by constant asteroid bombardment, with a particular unlucky and massive hit destroying the bridge?

Your claims of the destructive power and every over exaggeration you have claimed thus far. I have a feeling plenty more are coming this way.

You have speculated about the area being one kilometer without any factual proof as the source for your beliefs. Then what's worse is you ramble on about real life weaponry and try to create a false parallel between the two. That is simply absurd.

Oh can't I rebut you now ? Since when ? You haven't proven your claims and continue to pound your chest in some primitive caveman manner. Ok since I am not looking for any YouTube videos to highlight the Star Wars pathetic MF I'll just time stamp it.

Around 35 minutes into the ESB we see Han Solo using the ships guns to fire on a wintery storm trooper. It doesn't do anything impressive by any means. Downright pathetic. We then flash forward to episode 7 and we see the MF easily take out a tie fighter with a shot to the wing. Nothing impressive at all and these ships easily go down. We see Dameron's rebel ship was easily taken out via the Stormtroopers blasts. I am not talking about the bigger guns which completely destroyed it I am referring to the standard weaponry which critically damaged it.

Films only. Ops are meant to be followed not ignored when you want to show your bias.

So now you're making up excuses to explain away why Chewie didn't fire again. You don't have anything to support this blatant fanboyism. What's worse we see Chewie shoot no more than a second or two later at the Stormtroopers who were going to attack him since he just fired on their commander. For ****s sake the dishonesty if you fanboys. What I relish in is the fact you're too stupid to even make a compelling argument and have to resort to blatant lies to cover up your insanity.

So now you pretend there's maybe armor under their despite nothing to support this. It's always the same with you people. Excuses, baseless claims, and made up numbers to support your brand. The irony is you call yourself an anti fanboy when you're as fanatical as they come.

I used the entire scene. It wasn't just one blast. The point is despite the concussive power of the blasts they don't do massive damage to the bodies like say the Boolean gun as evidenced by the shot to Kylo Ren. We don't see a massive difference in visceral damage done to the Stormtroopers when comparing to the standard blasters. We just see in certain scenes a difference in concussive force.

That just means the torpedoes don't always hit their targets due to the circumstances of the situation.

We see massive explosions in Trek as well especially when the USS Kelvin collides with the Narada. The difference is unlike in Star Wars when inferior ships explode and collide they don't cause significant damage like in Trek. I've always maintained this and it's routinely supported. Thanks.

Oh for ****s sake we see the much smaller ships in these clips take out their shield generators rather easily. These same smaller ships are easily damaged by the smaller and really not powerful buzz droids. But your logic and fanatical mind will always try to support anything in star wars is somehow more powerful simply for being associated with Star Wars.

We see they didn't have the definition back then as they do now. It simply came across as more compelling and easier to give off the impression the object was completely destroyed. No, it isn't a red herring these kinds of examples are found all throughout fiction as these pieces of work come from the imagination not some kind of reality where things need to add up. You can ignore the countless examples of the inconsistencies to support your anything that happens in Star Wars is more powerful simply for being a part of it nonsense.

So some jackass who just has an opinion which isn't a fact we base everything from. Dear lord you need your head examined because you lost your German marbles. Again with the nonsensical claims. How correct was Han with bringing his son in ? How did that end up for old Han ?

And Trek has red matter which by feats is greater since it destroyed an active super nova. What's sadder for wars is you need years and huge bases to co struck whereas Trek needs small ships and drops of the stuff to set at its target. The practicality of it is laughable compared to Wars massive manpower required to construct and maintain the station.

Cite your courses quit with the nerd math. Baseless claim.

MF was hit by one off screen and we never see it struck again. It depends on the size of the asteroid and the speed both which we can't determine since we see inside the cockpit at the time of the attack.

Off screens and they had tie fighters and massive help. I've seen three star destroyers unable to stop the MF due to poor offensive targeting and maneuverability.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Dude you realize you just proved your own arguement wrong. It's like you don't even know what words mean.

But yes I did misrepresent your arguement just to see you go off the deep end. As Vadar would say "Aw to easy."😂

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your claims of the destructive power and every over exaggeration you have claimed thus far. I have a feeling plenty more are coming this way.

You have speculated about the area being one kilometer without any factual proof as the source for your beliefs. Then what's worse is you ramble on about real life weaponry and try to create a false parallel between the two. That is simply absurd.

The proof is visual evidence from the movie. Just for you again:

Close up:

Explosion on top of the Executor, which happens to be 19,000 meters long. Explosion is therefore roughly 1.5 kilometers in diameter. Nice try.


Oh can't I rebut you now ? Since when ? You haven't proven your claims and continue to pound your chest in some primitive caveman manner. Ok since I am not looking for any YouTube videos to highlight the Star Wars pathetic MF I'll just time stamp it.

Thanks for just ignoring anything I brought to the table and continueing with a red herring again:

Around 35 minutes into the ESB we see Han Solo using the ships guns to fire on a wintery storm trooper.[...]

One can only wonder what the point defense small guns of the Falcon have to do with the firepower a Star Destroyer packs. The correct answer is: Nothing. So we have nothing but irrelevant missdirection from Mr. Quanchi here. As usual.


Films only. Ops are meant to be followed not ignored when you want to show your bias.

Pardon me, Quanchimon. The OP says nothing about "films only" and since this is the Expanded Universe section of the forum and not the "movie versus"...


So now you're making up excuses to explain away why Chewie didn't fire again. You don't have anything to support this blatant fanboyism. What's worse we see Chewie shoot no more than a second or two later at the Stormtroopers who were going to attack him since he just fired on their commander. For ****s sake the dishonesty if you fanboys. What I relish in is the fact you're too stupid to even make a compelling argument and have to resort to blatant lies to cover up your insanity.

My bad. I though he was shooting the Troopers first.


So now you pretend there's maybe armor under their despite nothing to support this. It's always the same with you people. Excuses, baseless claims, and made up numbers to support your brand. The irony is you call yourself an anti fanboy when you're as fanatical as they come.

The irony is, that you have neither countered the accusation that you are lowballing SW, nor have you presented an argument for your side. D'uh.

I used the entire scene. It wasn't just one blast. The point is despite the concussive power of the blasts they don't do massive damage to the bodies like say the Boolean gun as evidenced by the shot to Kylo Ren. We don't see a massive difference in visceral damage done to the Stormtroopers when comparing to the standard blasters. We just see in certain scenes a difference in concussive force.

Anything new on that fight argued here? You know: Dreadnaught vs Star Destroyer? Nope? Thought so.


That just means the torpedoes don't always hit their targets due to the circumstances of the situation.

Wow. What a revelation, Quanchimon. And now apply that newfound knowledge to SW handheld guns, which have nothing to do with this thread here at all.

We see massive explosions in Trek as well especially when the USS Kelvin collides with the Narada. The difference is unlike in Star Wars when inferior ships explode and collide they don't cause significant damage like in Trek. I've always maintained this and it's routinely supported. Thanks.

So we're now comparing explosions of entire ships versus weapon fire impact? 🙄

And yeah. All that damage inferior ships cause when the crash into larger ones...

YouTube video

0:53: TIE-Interceptor flies straight into the Mon Calamari Cruiser - not a scratch.

1:17 - 1:23: Y-Wing crashes right into a Star Destroyer - no effect. TIE-Fighter hits bridge of the Star Destroyer - not a scratch.

Oh for ****s sake we see the much smaller ships in these clips take out their shield generators rather easily. These same smaller ships are easily damaged by the smaller and really not powerful buzz droids. But your logic and fanatical mind will always try to support anything in star wars is somehow more powerful simply for being associated with Star Wars.

Because the hangar shields that merely prevent air from getting out are clearly the same as the ship shields that protect the entire vessel against damage. 🙄

It's nice that you also ignore the context of the battle entirely:

"In a stunning move, the fiendish droid leader, General Grievous, has swept into the Republic capital and kidnapped Chancellor Palpatine, leader of the Galactic Senate.

As the Separatist Droid Army attempts to flee the besieged capital with their valuable hostage, two Jedi Knights lead a desperate mission to rescue the captive Chancellor. . . ."

So the intro text tells us, that the space-battle in orbit is lasting quite some time, given that Grievous had time to get troops from space down to the planet to capture the Chancellor and get back into orbit again. So it's pretty obvious that none of them were at full shield capacity. And by the way: Even the intro sequence lasts longer than any Star Trek ship this side of a Borg Cube ever did in a space battle.


We see they didn't have the definition back then as they do now. It simply came across as more compelling and easier to give off the impression the object was completely destroyed. No, it isn't a red herring these kinds of examples are found all throughout fiction as these pieces of work come from the imagination not some kind of reality where things need to add up. You can ignore the countless examples of the inconsistencies to support your anything that happens in Star Wars is more powerful simply for being a part of it nonsense.

You are still just citing your pitty excuses instead of either questioning my reasoning or - god forbid - come up with arguments for your site which, so far, don't exist.


So some jackass who just has an opinion which isn't a fact we base everything from. Dear lord you need your head examined because you lost your German marbles. Again with the nonsensical claims. How correct was Han with bringing his son in ? How did that end up for old Han ?

Irrelevant missdirection, Upteenth Edition. What has Han's judgement about his son have to do with his experience with the firepower of Imperial Vessels. One can only marvel at the leaps in "logic" and "reason" you're performing.


And Trek has red matter which by feats is greater since it destroyed an active super nova.

And if any of that would be on board of a Dreadnought, it would maybe matter for this debate.

What's sadder for wars is you need years and huge bases to co struck whereas Trek needs small ships and drops of the stuff to set at its target. The practicality of it is laughable compared to Wars massive manpower required to construct and maintain the station.

One can again just wonder what this has to do with this thread. *shrugs*


Cite your courses quit with the nerd math. Baseless claim.

What "Nerd Math", pal?

Alderaan is an earth-sized planet. You can get some information about Earth right here. Among those the volume of the Earth: 1.08321×10E12 km3. The Death Star just blows that into bits. Now any comparison to that kind of firepower that doesn't feature any "billions of ships" would still leave every major SW ship with enough power to blast seriously huge chunks of the Earth into nothingness on its own. Not even "nerd math" needed for that fact.


MF was hit by one off screen and we never see it struck again. It depends on the size of the asteroid and the speed both which we can't determine since we see inside the cockpit at the time of the attack.

Was that before or after flying through a swarm of smaller asteroids that pretty clearly all hit the shielding with far less effect than the three bigger impacts on the Falcon before.

YouTube video

1:31 - first asteroid impact
1:36 - second asteroid impact
2:30 - third asteroid impact
2:36 - remains of former asteroids impact on Falcon with far lesser effect

So after we have established that you can't even count to three, it is pretty obvious why you are crying about "nerd math" or anything bigger than the addition of one-digit-numbers.


Off screens and they had tie fighters and massive help. I've seen three star destroyers unable to stop the MF due to poor offensive targeting and maneuverability.

They had "massive help"? What did help them so massively, Quanchi? And, well...They are still hitting the MF rather easily with their point defense light weaponary. They hit far better with it than the future uber tech Narada does with its photon torpedos. 😄

You won't be giving up, will you, Nai? But for this discussion, that's a good thing.

Just one thing to note, according to the ESB script, it was flak fire not Turbolasers that the ISD used against the Falcon.

EXT. IMPERIAL STAR DESTROYER, AVENGER - ASTEROID BELT

The Millennium Falcon speeds through deep space, closely followed by a
firing Imperial Star Destroyer. A large asteroid about the same size
as the Falcon tumbles rapidly toward the starship. The tiny Falcon
banks to avoid the giant asteroid as smaller rocks pelt its surface.
Then the small craft roars under the asteroid which explodes harmlessly
on the hull of the vast Star Destroyer.

INT. MILLENNIUM FALCON - COCKPIT

The ship shudders as flak explodes near the cockpit window. Threepio
checks a tracking scope an the side control panel while Leia watches
tensely out the window.

Han corrects the angle of his ship.

HAN
Let's get out of here. Ready for
light-speed? One... two... three!

Han pulls back on the hyperspace throttle and - nothing happens. Flak
bursts continue to rock the ship.

HAN
(frantic)
It's not fair!

@CommonsenseIsaytheeNai

Posting the same pictures again with nothing official to confirm the distance or the size of the explosion.

Again you can speculate as to the size of the explosion but since we can't see close enough up and can't verify it is baseless you friggin' Star Wars cult member.

I time stamped the evidence which shows the inconsistencies you blabbering infant.

The point is this ship can bring down tie fighters but it can't tear through a little wintery armor. We all know the tie fighters are more durable than these forgettable Star Wars turds but you keep being you and ignoring these facts and logical inconsistencies set within the Star Wars universe. I never once stated the MF can match a destroyer I simply cited an inconsistent comparison within the Star Wars universe you stated didn't exist.

Read the forum default which isn't eu unless otherwise specified.

So you admit your theories were wrong.

I am citing facts so it isn't low or high balling because it's subjective. I am simply citing facts so try to keep your emotions out of this in the near future please. Vengeance is more maneuverable and can easily destroy the deflector shields and decimate this over sized target.

So you wanta to ignore chewies cross caster now. Figures.

That wasn't my point. I am citing examples of the Star Wars handheld guns hitting their targets and laughing at the lack of visceral damage they cause when in direct comparison to Trek weapons.

We have always been comparing everything ship related. The executor went down with its shield down with one much smaller ship crashing into it. Stick to the thread topic the destroyersnot the pt ships. This is a destroyer and the biggest one went down with one pivotal crash.

With the shields on. A much smaller ship easily took out a the deflector,shield and a smaller asteroid easily did as well. In Star Wars as long as your attacking key shielding points they go down ever so easily. The point is something with very weak firepower can take out the deflector shields and then it's s sitting duck. Even a key point crash can bring something over twelve times the size down.

They are shields and prevent access. They were easily destroyed just as the Executor's shield deflectors were destroyed. This is all supported in the films but here come the excuses.

I never contested it lasted quite some time but that isn't my point. We don't know how much time and don't just give random timeframes to support whatever side you really, really, really want to win.

You can't just assume that and I don't just assume that the Narada wasn't at full shield capacity in the final scene of Star Trek because it previously went through 40 some Klingon ships and multiple federation vessels just because. It obviously took a lot of fire before it decimated them all. Picard had key information where to coordinate the trek vessels to fire at one Borg ship which already put down multiple federation vessels as well.

I cited my reasoning and told you logically why this isn't the case. It's common sense and a huge reason you see comic vs fans not nerd calcing anything in the comics due to the inconsistencies. It's a waste of time and not iron clad. One should only debate with iron clad facts and base their arguments of those.

So a man he raised he doesn't have a goddamn clue about but the imperial ships which he's been evading he's a goddamn expert. For **** sake do you even take yourself seriously. His opinion is only his opinion. When someone says Yoda is the most powerful that's just Kenobi or whoever said sos opinion.

You brought up the Death Star you moron.

You wanted to compare each universes bigger weapons so I returned the volley. Since you concede the point I'll drop it.

What does the Death Star have to do with this thread ? Hypocrisy 101.

Screen cap this shit because you're lying. We see the bigger asteroids clearly hit the ties and down them but not one of that size do we ever see visually strike the MF. Go ahead.

So the empire doesn't use coordinated attacks, multiple tie fighters, and multiple destroyers to achieve its goals. Rightttttttttttt.

🙄

Originally posted by SunRazer
You won't be giving up, will you, Nai? But for this discussion, that's a good thing.
If you believe Nai will see this through you're wrong.

Vengeance is to fast, it will never be hit. X wings were able to target and disable a star destroyers shields. The vengeance will target and destroy the shield generators instantly and easier then the X Wings.

The Vengence wins

Nai has conceded. He gave up. Threw in the towel. Surrendered. Knees buckled. Raised the white flag. Submitted.

😂

You're a Beyonder wanker, so I'll forgive you. 🙂

Nai ran off after he realized a SD was taken down by a x wing😂

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Nai ran off after he realized a SD was taken down by a x wing😂

When?

Plus why do you and Q assume he just runs off, when he always comes back to reply?

I want to see him type a 5000 word essay explaining how the Vengence loses when an X Wing took down a star destroyer.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Nai ran off after he realized a SD was taken down by a x wing😂
😂

Originally posted by Zenwolf
When?

Plus why do you and Q assume he just runs off, when he always comes back to reply?

I challenged him to an official and judged debate to which he turned down. He proceeded to argue in the challenge thread but was too cowardly to accept. He doesn't believe what he types. I had to seek out Ellimist to argue the ot trilogy vs the Kelvin trilogy. I can post links to him backing down.

Originally posted by TwoBrainCells112
Posting the same pictures again with nothing official to confirm the distance or the size of the explosion.

Again you can speculate as to the size of the explosion but since we can't see close enough up and can't verify it is baseless you friggin' Star Wars cult member.

Oh. The moron is back at work, I suppose.
There are only three types of ships involved in the battle, Quanchi: Capital ships (Star Destroyers / Mon Calamari Cruiser / Frigates), starfighters (X-Wings / TIE-Fighters) and the Millenium Falcon.

Now where could that explosion be and what could it be?

1)
It could be as it said: It's a direct hit on the Executor in which case my size estimations apply perfectly.

2)
It could be the explosion of one of the capital ships, in which case my estimation is still correct because the only capital ships that were not destroyed by the Death Star itself where Star Destroyers (which are 1,6 kilometers long).

3)
It could be the explosion of a Star Fighter. But as we all know, Star Fighters explosions aren't far bigger than the ship that explodes. Thus the explosion, if it had been a starfighter, would have to have happened rather close to the point of view from Luke. Which makes no sense since the space battle happened rather far away from the Death Star and all starfighters involved wer starting from the Star Destroyers. Nothing Rebels or Imperials that close to the Death Star.

4)
It could be explosion of weaponfire some distance away from the Executor. But given the relative closeness of the Imperial capital ships it would not be far away from the point where all of them were fighting, which means that we won't see much of an aberration from my conclusion.

Conclusion: We're dealing with a rather huge explosion and there is no way to deny that, meaning that Star Wars capital ship weapons are far more powerful then Star Trek ones. The End.

I time stamped the evidence which shows the inconsistencies you blabbering infant.The point is this ship can bring down tie fighters but it can't tear through a little wintery armor. We all know the tie fighters are more durable than these forgettable Star Wars turds but you keep being you and ignoring these facts and logical inconsistencies set within the Star Wars universe. I never once stated the MF can match a destroyer I simply cited an inconsistent comparison within the Star Wars universe you stated didn't exist.

You time stamped stuff that doens't have to do anything with this debate and is, on top of that, total bullshit. The Falcon wasn't shooting the stormtroopers with the same weapon which it uses to shoot TIE-Fighters, making your "reasoning" a dead end.


Read the forum default which isn't eu unless otherwise specified.

I'd advise you to read the forum default, which isn't "movies only" but - if all - it's "Disney canon" in which the "Clone Wars" movie / TV show and the "Rebels" TV show are included. Furthermore did I bring examples from Revenge of the Sith (even keeping this "film only"😉 which you also chose to ignore.

So you admit your theories were wrong.

I admit that the empty power-cell theory was wrong.


I am citing facts so it isn't low or high balling because it's subjective. I am simply citing facts so try to keep your emotions out of this in the near future please. Vengeance is more maneuverable and can easily destroy the deflector shields and decimate this over sized target.

Nope. You're not citing facts. You attempt to dodge onscreen evidence from the Star Wars canon material and then attempt to talk it down with entirely unrelated stuff from the movie material (e.g. handguns). Then you do nothing but making baseless claims regarding the topic.

Present proof that the Vengeance can destroy a Star Destroyers deflector shields or shut up, if you don't have an argument. And you don't.


So you wanta to ignore chewies cross caster now. Figures.

Yes. Because it is not one of the weapons mounted on a Star Destroyer.
Furthermore: No. I want you to understand, that it (for whatever reason) failing to kill Kylo Ren and toss him through the air doesn't mean it doesn't do that anymore, despite the fact it is killing and tossing everbody else it hits. Assuming otherwise - which you do - is lowballing.


That wasn't my point.

We all know, since you have no point.

I am citing examples of the Star Wars handheld guns hitting their targets and laughing at the lack of visceral damage they cause when in direct comparison to Trek weapons.

Again: One can only marvel what this has to do with the topic at hand.
Furthermore: There are example were Star Wars weapons literally vaporize metal constructions, burn through walls, and turn people into burned black skeletons, which you happily ignore in favor for, yes Sir, lowballing.


We have always been comparing everything ship related. The executor went down with its shield down with one much smaller ship crashing into it. Stick to the thread topic the destroyersnot the pt ships. This is a destroyer and the biggest one went down with one pivotal crash.

Again: Context.
The Executor was the main-target in a space battle that lasted over an extended time period, before they lost a deflector shield. This after the entire Rebel fleet focused fire on the ship. You still make it seem as if just one ship was firing on it for one second and the shields went down, which is laughable.

And lmao, telling me to sticking to the thread topic after starting to discuss handweapon. 😂 Furthermore: Since the Venator class (or PT ships) are direct forerunners of the Star Destroyers - just less powerful - it is logical to assume that a Star Destroyer can just hit at least as hard as them and tank as much firepower as them - just better (more energy, better shields, better weapons). This is called "logical assumption", you garden-shed dwelling excuse for an intelligent lifeform.


With the shields on. A much smaller ship easily took out a the deflector,shield and a smaller asteroid easily did as well.

Except it didn't. You're just ignoring the entire context of the scenes in question, given that you have the IQ that is located somewhere between that of your usual house pig and bread.

In Star Wars as long as your attacking key shielding points they go down ever so easily. The point is something with very weak firepower can take out the deflector shields and then it's s sitting duck. Even a key point crash can bring something over twelve times the size down.

Except: You still ignoring context and this doesn't happen. A starfighter can not hope to take down the shields of Star Destroyer on his own. Fact. There are no "key shielding points", since the shields sorround the entire ship and prevent energy and matter from passing through them.


They are shields and prevent access. They were easily destroyed just as the Executor's shield deflectors were destroyed. This is all supported in the films but here come the excuses.

They have a shield control located outside the shields - unlike usual ship shielding in Star Wars - since they aren't there to "protect" the ship, just to keep the air in. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I never contested it lasted quite some time but that isn't my point. We don't know how much time and don't just give random timeframes to support whatever side you really, really, really want to win.

It doesn't matter if it were minutes, hours, days or weeks. The usual ship battle in Star Trek is over in seconds, because usually their shields are almost down from the first hit of whatever pathetic weapon is being used against them. And Star Wars can deliver more firepower in far greater speed. There is nothing to debate here.


You can't just assume that and I don't just assume that the Narada wasn't at full shield capacity in the final scene of Star Trek because it previously went through 40 some Klingon ships and multiple federation vessels just because.It obviously took a lot of fire before it decimated them all. Picard had key information where to coordinate the trek vessels to fire at one Borg ship which already put down multiple federation vessels as well.

Of course I can assume that, because it is a logical assumption. If two ships are participating in a head on space battle over an extended period of time, where we see all ships being fired at, then they wouldn't be at full shielding any longer.

And the Narrada was ambushing ships leaving warp speed without shielding on. *Applauds* I wonder how much counterfire there was, when it was just onehitting all other ships. I mean, really, it apparently dealt with the entire Federation fleet in about 40 seconds (which is the time that the Enterprise was behind the rest of the Fleet).


I cited my reasoning and told you logically why this isn't the case. It's common sense and a huge reason you see comic vs fans not nerd calcing anything in the comics due to the inconsistencies. It's a waste of time and not iron clad. One should only debate with iron clad facts and base their arguments of those.

The firepower demonstrated in the movies, which you have chosen to ignore so far, is still depicted to be greater than anything Star Treks has. It gets boring.

So a man he raised he doesn't have a goddamn clue about but the imperial ships which he's been evading he's a goddamn expert. For **** sake do you even take yourself seriously. His opinion is only his opinion. When someone says Yoda is the most powerful that's just Kenobi or whoever said sos opinion.

You brought up the Death Star you moron.

You wanted to compare each universes bigger weapons so I returned the volley. Since you concede the point I'll drop it.

What does the Death Star have to do with this thread ? Hypocrisy 101.

The Death Star superlaser is still a modified version of the turbolasers they using in their ships and the power of their ships was compared to the firepower of that superlaser. That is why it is here. And that is why even using canon information only, the Star Destroyer destroys the Vengeance with ease.


Screen cap this shit because you're lying. We see the bigger asteroids clearly hit the ties and down them but not one of that size do we ever see visually strike the MF. Go ahead.

We see smaller asteroids hitting and having smaller effects. And it is, again - knowning you have a problem with that - only logical that the MF can tank more damange with its shields than entirely unshielded TIE-Fighters.


So the empire doesn't use coordinated attacks, multiple tie fighters, and multiple destroyers to achieve its goals. Rightttttttttttt. 🙄

That does aid them in getting through the asteroid field (which was the point) how exactly?


I challenged him to an official and judged debate to which he turned down. He proceeded to argue in the challenge thread but was too cowardly to accept. He doesn't believe what he types. I had to seek out Ellimist to argue the ot trilogy vs the Kelvin trilogy. I can post links to him backing down.

Lmao, rat boy.
I declined, because you're no challenge for me, as demonstrated here and don't accept judgements anyway. So where is the point? But yeah. Post links, please, so everybody can see your desperate attention craving. 😂

speak of the devil 😆

Right on cue my obedient Nai. I am not done with you by a long shot but I do have to go on my daily jog. Expect a rebuttal when I can devote the time to counter this fanatical drivel you call your response.

With regards to you not accepting judgments that doesn't mean you don't believe in your case. It just means you're co indent enough to put it in the hands of judges. You weren't I was. Try to get over it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Right on cue my obedient Nai. I am not done with you by a long shot but I do have to go on my daily jog. Expect a rebuttal when I can devote the time to counter this fanatical drivel you call your response.

With regards to you not accepting judgments that doesn't mean you don't believe in your case. It just means you're co indent enough to put it in the hands of judges. You weren't I was. Try to get over it.