Originally posted by AncientPower
Destroying half of a heavily damaged Nebulon-B frigate, compared to lifting a heavily armoured Derriphan-class battleship? Okay.
You know that the frigate is actually bigger, right?
Originally posted by AncientPower
Gotta love how you magically left out the fact he was years pre-prime at that point.
So was Vader in TFU. 👆
The frigate is longer, but nowhere near as vast. A third of the Nebolun frigate is literally just a spinal segment if the ship. The thing also has barely any armor, as compared to the heavily armoured battleship.
http://thestarwarstrilogy.com/StarWars/wallpaper/ships/NebulonB.jpg
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I disagree, but unless if one of us wants to do the calculations we can't really resolve this.You might have said this earlier but where did you get the idea that he lifted it hundreds of feet into the air?
It's already buried beneath the temple where he lifts it from and the image in the comic has it above the temple itself, which is absolutely enormous. It's easily hundreds of feet.
Originally posted by Syndicate
So what was the reason Kun didn't just drain Kyp and the other students fully rather then just using them as batteries AP?
He wanted a nucleus of followers, and to use them as the beginnings of a new Sith brotherhood to reshape the galaxy. Draining Gantoris wasn't part of the plan.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
There's also the issue of prep time. If you charge your powers you can do more with the Force; look at Bane busting the temple or Nyriss's lightning. So Exar could have gathered his energies for several seconds, minutes or even hours. Meanwhile, Vader and Galen have feats done on a whim.
Have any evidence at all for this?
Originally posted by AncientPower
Have any evidence at all for this?
Given how vague the feat is, we have no idea what really happened, but it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Kun would do whatever was optimal for lifting it, which might involve gathering his energies, yes.
I mean, without context I could point out that Luke busted Vader's sky-scraping fortress, totally with one gesture. 👆
Originally posted by SunRazer
And of course you'd think Kun wins. What movie era character could possibly stand up to him?
RotS versions of Yoda and Sidious could stand up to him, but I don't know if one of them could win. Vader? Just laughable.
But maybe I'm just thinking like that, because I know the development stories of the TOTJ era and DE stuff. Tom Veitch and Kevin J. Anderson went to Lucas and asked him, what Sith Lords would be capable of doing. Then they used that to come up with DE Sidious (Veitch), the Ancient Sith (Veitch / Anderson) and Exar Kun (Anderson). So those characters are all developments more to the extreme starting with the (OT) movie era Sith Lords.
You may think about the fact, that Plagueis, before managing to unbalance the Force together with Sidious, muses that the deeds of the Ancient Sith / Kun were either completely exaggerated myths or could just have been done because the Dark Side was stronger in their time. So, essentially, the balance shift puts him in the same position that those people were, apparently, before him.
Originally posted by Rebel95
What are Kun's best feats not on a nexus?
What are Vader's best feats without having an unbalanced force to aid his dark side exploits? Attempting to make "but he was amped by xxx" comments when trying to argue in favor for movie era dark siders is a joke.
Originally posted by Nai
What are Vader's best feats without having an unbalanced force to aid his dark side exploits?
Lol, what? Where was it stated that this unbalance literally made dark siders stronger (rather than maybe birthing more naturally powerful Force sensitives)? If that were the case, why didn't Sidious just kill Yoda with a finger flick? How was Obi Wan competing with RotS Vader? The shift in balance affected long-term precognition and foresight, not combative power.
Otherwise, how is Dark Empire Palpatine so powerful compared to his RotS incarnation, given that Anakin had restored balance to the Force?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lol, what? Where was it stated that this unbalance literally made dark siders stronger (rather than maybe birthing more naturally powerful Force sensitives)?
Did you, by chance, read a novel called "Darth Plagueis"?
If that were the case, why didn't Sidious just kill Yoda with a finger flick? How was Obi Wan competing with RotS Vader?
Because Sidious was just elevated to a position where he was Yoda's equal, obviously. And Obi-Wan was "competing" in sabers with an emotionally destabilized Anakin Skywalker.
The shift in balance affected long-term precognition and foresight, not combative power.
You may, once more, go and read "Darth Plagueis".
There was a boost in the Dark Sider's power in general:
"All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side. Not a mere paradigm shift, but a tangible alteration that could be felt by anyone strong in the Force, and whether or not trained in the Sith or Jedi arts" - Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Chapter 24.
There are power suddenly gained, directly attributed to the shift:
"On the same day they had allowed Venamis to die. Then, by manipulating the Bith's midi-chlorians, which should have been inert and unresponsive, Plagueis had ressurected him. The enormity of the event had stunned Sidious into silence[...]But having gained the power to keep another alive hadn't been enough for him." - Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Chapter 24.
In fact, the newfound power led Plaguies to the following idea:
"Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn't master through an effort of will." - Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Chapter 24.
Before that happened, he was speculating about the power of the Ancient Sith:
"But had Sith like Naga Sadow and Exar Kun genuinely been more powerful, or had they benefited from the fact that the dark side had been more prominent in those bygone eras?" - Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Chapter 5.
So, urm: The shift did affect the entirety of the skills as force user, not just some selected abilities. It even increased the midi-chlorian count of Plagueis.
Otherwise, how is Dark Empire Palpatine so powerful compared to his RotS incarnation, given that Anakin had restored balance to the Force?
Because, obviously, the entirety of "Dark Empire" was conceived before the Chosen One / Force Balance stuff was. 🙄
Originally posted by Nai
Because, obviously, the entirety of "Dark Empire" was conceived before the Chosen One / Force Balance stuff was. 🙄
😬 You do realize that this also applies to all of Legends Vader's important feats, which were laid out before Plagueis was published, right? Thanks for introducing authorial intent and dismantling the rest of your post, LMAO.
EDIT: also, seeing as how the PT Jedi would be weakened or at least not benefitted from the same phenomenon, even if we take your using midichlorian manipulation to prove combative prowess seriously, all of Vader and Sidious's feats can still be scaled to Yoda, who you now admit is much more powerful than someone you think is only in the same tier as Exar Kun.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
😬 You do realize that this also applies to all of Legends Vader's important feats, which were laid out before Plagueis was published, right? Thanks for introducing authorial intent and dismantling the rest of your post, LMAO.
If we go by "authorial intent", Exar Kun is on one level with DE Sidious, thanks to Kevin J. Anderson proclaiming saying that, to find out who the most powerful Sith is, those two need to duke it out. :/
To me, personally, authorial intent is worthless when analysing fiction. But gosh: I, contrary to you, know how that works. 😉
EDIT: also, seeing as how the PT Jedi would be weakened or at least not benefitted from the same phenomenon, even if we take your using midichlorian manipulation to prove combative prowess seriously, all of Vader and Sidious's feats can still be scaled to Yoda, who you now admit is much more powerful than someone you think is only in the same tier as Exar Kun.
I really don't get what you are strawmanning into my points there.
I said, rather clearly, that maybe Yoda or Sidious could go and challenge Kun for the movie era people. There you have my opinion.
I don't know where I implied that somebody far less powerful than Yoda is "on the same tier as Exar Kun". Post balance-shift Plagueis can still be far less powerful than Kun, as he just thinks he is now in a position where no ability is beyond his grasp. Much like Sidious thinks he will spread his reign to other Galaxies and "blot out the stars" in the Dark Empire sourcebook. We know how that did end, right?
