Originally posted by Rockydonovang
this?(it does say perhaps)
Perhaps Tyranus' most powerful student was Asaji Ventress.
-- Star Wars Fact File 116Wouldn't that also put ventress over oppress?
Key word, *Tyranus* most powerful student, not Dooku's. Therefore Jinn does not factor into that statement. Ventress' most impressive feats are when she gets mega angry and gets massively amped by the dark side for a fraction of time. I don't think she's ever definitively beat Anakin or Obi-Wan in canon.
Not only that but Jinn is again considered one of *the* best swordsmen in the order, and matched Darth Maul as a lightsaber combatant until his flagging stamina failed him. He equalled with an opponent who was considered one of the most highly trained Sith in the orders history whilst being triple the age.
Originally posted by samappo
Key word, *Tyranus* most powerful student, not Dooku's. Therefore Jinn does not factor into that statement. Ventress' most impressive feats are when she gets mega angry and gets massively amped by the dark side for a fraction of time. I don't think she's ever definitively beat Anakin or Obi-Wan in canon.Not only that but Jinn is again considered one of *the* best swordsmen in the order, and matched Darth Maul as a lightsaber combatant until his flagging stamina failed him. He equalled with an opponent who was considered one of the most highly trained Sith in the orders history whilst being triple the age.
Originally posted by samappo
If we're talking about the TPM novelisation, he did?
''Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi's excellent use of Form IV's acrobatic maneuvers are little more than delaying tactics against the Form VII (Juyo) skills of Darth Maul.'' - Star Wars Insider #62: Fightsaber.
"Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly. The Jedi Master blocked him again and again, but could not find an opening that would provide any chance of escape.'' - The Phantom Menace.
Not so much. In the first quote Maul is also notably injured and by his own estimation "not at his best."
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
''Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi's excellent use of Form IV's acrobatic maneuvers are little more than delaying tactics against the Form VII (Juyo) skills of Darth Maul.'' - Star Wars Insider #62: Fightsaber."Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly. The Jedi Master blocked him again and again, but could not find an opening that would provide any chance of escape.'' - The Phantom Menace.
Not so much. In the first quote Maul is also notably injured and by his own estimation "not at his best."
Ah but not all of the text is taken into account, just one passage that works in your favor.
The Force favors this Jedi! Maul recalled thinking.
After all the droids, assassins, gangsters, and soldiers he had vanquished, finally a worthy opponent. Not since he had fought and been defeated by his own Master, Darth Sidious, had Maul been so committed to a challenge.
Here it says that Jinn matched Maul blow to blow. It also displays Jinn's experience in high intensity lightsaber duels, since Jinn remembered Anakin, yet Maul did not.
Obviously, the fact that Jinn was his first worthy opponent (not considering Sidious who is leagues above both) other than gangsters etc. is not surprising, however, Maul was committed to the challenge, which means Jinn matched him.
But he is graceful, this Jedi. The sand doesn't see to hamper him. He is never off balance, no matter where or how I strike.
Despite Jinn facing Maul's Form VII offensive, he did not become unbalanced in the sand, despite every attempt by Maul.
The Jedi meets my first blow, blocking it. He has expected my flying maneuver.
If an opponent can read you, the fight is over. I don't like that the Jedi was perfectly prepared for my first blow. Within seconds, I throw away my usual combinations and strategies. This Jedi seems to know how I will move before I do.
Jinn is so advanced a duelist that he can see what Darth Maul (a solid 8) is going to do before it happens. He even goes as far as to say that the fight was over. However he didn't anticipate Jinn's flagging stamina.
Qui-Gon’s shrewd readiness had almost taken Maul off his guard.
At this point I will point out that in the novelisation, in Jinn's perspective, Maul was:
younger, quicker and stronger than Qui-Gon,
And
The Jedi Master blocked him again and again, but could not find an opening that would give him any chance of escape.
Qui-Gon could read Maul's every move, despite Form VII being a highly randomised form that used unconnected sequences to confuse adversaries. This feat by Jinn can be attributed to his experience facing Form VII (Bondara) on a regular basis, as well as his strength in the force. What makes this even more impressive however, is that every Form VII application is quite different, since the user draws from the styles they learnt.
"There," the Jedi breathed, pointing. They could see Qui-Gon Jinn now, engaged in battle with the dark-garbed, demonic figure. The combatants surged back and forth across the flats, lightsabers flashing brightly with each blow struck, sand and grit swirling in all directions.
This shows that the battle was 'back and forth' and definitely not a one-sided engagement. The open nature of the field of battle would definitely help Jinn due to his reliance on Form IV. This also means Jinn put Maul on the defensive half the time as well.
He had matched Maul’s furious strokes with a disciplined intensity all his own.
Again, here we can prove that Jinn matched Maul.
Then, just when Qui-Gon’s stamina was beginning to flag and the fight was tipping in Maul’s favor, the incomprehensible had occurred: Qui-Gon had fled.
I will note that Darth Maul is slightly better than Jinn, but only due to the Jedi Master's age and reduced stamina. But this only came into effect in both battles during the end stage.
[i]But the horned attacker was already in pursuit, racing out pf the haze and leaping onto the ramp as the ship began to rise. Balanced precariously against the sway of the ship, eyes flaring in rage, he fought to keep his footing.
Qui-Gon attacked at once, rushing the other mam closing with him at the edge of the ramp... The Jedi Master and his adversary filled the viewscreen commanding the rampway entrance, faces tight with determination and streaked with sweat.
...On the screen, Anakin watched Qui-Gon Jinn step back, level his lightsaber, and swing a powerful, two-handed blow at his attacker. The horned man blocked it, but only barely, and in the process lost his balance completely. The blow's force swept him away...[/]
This is more impressive for Darth Maul than Jinn, but regardless, Jinn immediately followed up on Maul's attempt to enter the ship, and Jinn was able to overpower Maul, though granted Maul was on the lower end of the ramp.
Sorry had to do that quickly, some of the formatting is off.
Add this to the top of the post:
Regardless, Qui-Gon had quieted his mind and brought his imposing might to bear against Maul’s agility. He had matched Maul’s furious strokes with a disciplined intensity all his own. In the midst of their no-quarter contest the Jedi had even managed to order the slave boy to flee for the safety of the waiting ship, where Maul had nearly forgotten all about him.
And that's just addressing the duel on Tantooine, and not the duel of fates.
Originally posted by samappo
Powerful doesn't mean dueling abilities, I thought it would mean power in the force?
Though it should be noted that powerful has been used beyond just force powers. In SC, Jason fry has confirmed maul becoming more powerful also referred to him becoming more skilled. In dr, dooku considered grevious more powerful than ventress.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
''Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi's excellent use of Form IV's acrobatic maneuvers are little more than delaying tactics against the Form VII (Juyo) skills of Darth Maul.'' - Star Wars Insider #62: Fightsaber."Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly. The Jedi Master blocked him again and again, but could not find an opening that would provide any chance of escape.'' - The Phantom Menace.
Not so much. In the first quote Maul is also notably injured and by his own estimation "not at his best."
1. There's quite a few sources on this, but there's one saying that Maul only equalled the skills of the two Jedi and another saying that Maul "threatened to eclipse" the skills of the two, which means he hasn't actually done so. One can deduce that Maul isn't in fact more skilled. On the other hand, sources establish Maul as blunting the Jedi's use of the Force with the dark side and the TPM junior novelization in particular has Obi-Wan noting that Maul is clouding his mind. That could explain his advantage.
2. That's a nice quote from Qui-Gon's perspective but the novel goes on to say that the two surge back and forth across the flats, which indicates a degree of relative parity between the two. Certainly the newest source on the fight, End Game, which is from Maul's perspective, depicts as much — with Qui-Gon only beginning to lose once his stamina flagged. We can presume that they were relatively equal otherwise, enough so that Maul actually thought the Force was actively favouring Qui-Gon over him.
3. Maul mentions it being there but "barely perceptible"; almost negligible. Qui-Gon himself wasn't exactly at his best either, since he had just been running through the desert. There's apparently sources that mention how tired he was even before engaging Maul in combat but I've yet to find them.