Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The destruction of Malachor V doesn't classify as annihilation. It wasn't wiped completely. Malachor V is still there, just turned into asteroids. Apparently Kreia's body rested somewhere on the asteroids.
Trayus Core, where she died, definitely was destroyed by falling into the core of the planet. That aside, I think Malachor being torn apart counts as annihilation - I'll elaborate using examples later.
Also, you think Kreia's body would survive three centuries after it fell into the core of the planet that was torn apart by the Mass Shadow Generator?
The energy also can't be destroyed when the rocks split apart. That's basic science.
"Basic science" can't account for supernatural things like dark side energy, I'm afraid. Moreover, I don't believe that an object has to be literally atomized to be "annihilated".
But for the sake of comparison, here's an example of a Sith spirit being destroyed when his anchor is destroyed:
Here, Muur's spirit is destroyed when his anchor, the Muur Talisman, is "annihilated" - but it's not literally erased from reality, just broken into fragments. The same happened to Malachor V, and certainly to the Trayus Core. I think the fact that sources reaffirm Malachor V's destruction is enough.
Your point concerning Endor doesn't stand because the nexus was the remnants of Palpatine's physical body. His spirit and power was preserved as a spirit, so thus the nexus wasn't on an extreme scale.
Fair enough.
That's my interpretation on it, at least. In regards to Corellia, I find it silly to assume Kreia never traveled to their before. It's one of the most populous and important planets in the galaxy.
It's not silly at all. Just because it's one of the most populous doesn't mean she has to travel to it.
But yes, my argument requires speculation. The entire debate is speculation trying to make sense of BioWare's disgrace of KotOR II.
Well, that's something we can both agree on.
However, the area where she trapped in can easily pass as a nexus if we're being reasonable.
Are you referring to Corellia or Malachor, here?
But yes, my argument requires speculation. The entire debate is speculation trying to make sense of BioWare's disgrace of KotOR II. However, the area where she trapped in can easily pass as a nexus if we're being reasonable. Fine, you may disagree - I don't care enough to spend numerous pages debating it with you and neither of us getting no where. I presented the evidence on why I think this is the case, and I've also admitted the areas where a bit of brain work is needed. If you don't want to give the benefit of the doubt on those few gaps, whatever.
And fair enough, but you're relying on me being way too charitable towards your case whereas you don't seem inclined to offer me the same charity. It seems like you're deadset on trying to disprove this and that you just don't want it to be true. Perhaps if you could acknowledge that my case is just as plausible or possible as yours?
On a historical basis, Kreia's spirit would simply not be amped by any nexus, since that has never happened before, and on an evidential basis, the destruction of Malachor V/Trayus Core is enough to qualify as the destruction of Kreia's anchor, much as it was for Muur. The facts are aligned with me on Malachor V not amping Traya's spirit, here.
Your theory is simply not consistent with what we know of Kreia's power and character.
What theory? That Traya had no amplification as a spirit? I'd say that's a reasonable assumption, because no Sith spirit's ever been amped compared to their living forms before.
And besides, consistency? I'd like that as well, but there's just about no consistency between TOR and KotOR II, I'm afraid.
And no, this is different from the instance with Revan and Nihilus because, unlike them, I have presented an actual reasoning why the difference in Kreia's power may be the case.
Fair enough. I'm just disputing it because I think you're looking for way too many holes - most or all of which probably wouldn't have even be considered by BioWare when they wrote that segment.
If no reasoning was available, like in regards to Revan and Nihilus and it's pretty clear and dry, I'd agree, but that isn't the case. Also, KotOR II heavily suggests Revan's superiority to Nihius time and time again as well, so it's not even inconsistent either - it just looks strange due to a feat comparison.
I'd say it's pretty clear cut and dry. If MW Revan's TK was vastly above that of Nihilus' fleet-resurrecting BS, he frankly wouldn't have needed the Mass Shadow Generator.
Regarding KotOR II, I don't remember his superiority over Nihilus being heavily implied time and again. And then there's the fact that Avellone obviously has a disconnection with how powerful Revan/the Ancient Sith are compared to the rest of the lore.
In regards to spirits not being able to affect more powerful beings than themselves, your Kun point makes no sense because it's wrong, but since you can't grasp my point, I'll refer to another example. On the False Emperor flashpoint, the protagonists confront, battle, and vanquish a Sith spirit. Is it ridiculous to assume that this random Force spirit wasn't more powerful than the Hero of Tython? If not, then your point doesn't hold. Since you want it to hold though, I assume you'll say that isn't the case.
I'm no longer following you, but essentially my point is that no Sith spirit has ever been amped upon dying, and their nexus amping them has simply never happened before. The spirits of Ragnos, Kun, Muur, Nadd and Sadow etc. were not more powerful than they were in life. That's why they wanted strong hosts/return to the flesh to regain all of their former power. There should be no difference with Traya.
And I find a difference because Voss Vitiate was seemingly intentionally given to Vitiate by Baras because the body had weaknesses.
Is there ever any elucidation on what these weaknesses were? I find it difficult to believe that the Emperor would accept bodies that were inherently weakened in terms of Force strength or capacity, so any weaknesses must've been through other means.
Besides, I thought the bulk of Baras' plan was to get Sel-Makor to overwhelm Vitiate and take control of his Voice, not just sabotage the body and be done with it.
That isn't the case for the Emperor that the Knight fought. Also, during the Voss episode, wasn't Vitiate also orchestrating the ritual that would have consumed the galaxy and dominating the minds of the Jedi strike team? In his final fight with the Hero of Tython, his power isn't spread out as thin.
Don't know if the Emperor was actively orchestrating it, but clearly the backlash from the failed attempts at the ritual weakened him further, which is why Scourge wanted them to attack after repeatedly foiling the Emperor's attempt at the ritual. I really doubt DK! Voice was stronger. He was actively trying to hide from everything else so he could recuperate his strength.
It's certainly not an implausible idea.
Not being implausible =/= likely. I don't want to sound presumptuous and emphasize that my take on this is better than yours or anything, but Occam's Razor would support my case. There's just no need to be riding on assumptions and speculations as in your case.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Should we start ranking the Entity against other darksiders in history? Assuming she isn't Kreia, the Wrath comparing her favorably to all other darksiders he'd experienced would put her high as **** on the scales.
Let's do this, now. Whether or not she's Kreia, where would you guys rank the Entity?
So if the Entity is > Baras (which means Baras used some sort of ritual/trickery to subdue her), that would likely make her (Kreia?) at least on par with the Wrath II in terms of Force, since I don't believe Baras was that far off from the Wrath. When does Baras receive his power-up from Sel-Makor?
And if it is Kreia, then it's almost certainly a weakened spirit of her, so yeah, she'd be even more powerful than the Sith protags by their vanilla endings.
Let the pink ribbons fall 🙂🙂🙂