Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No you didn't, but you did say this:Which prompted Cogito to say this:
Then you started down this ridiculous path of trying to prove AM is effective against herald busters without his trident, sometimes including pics of him fighting with the trident.
I honestly don't know what you are trying to accomplish. You can post all the scans you want, but you aren't going to change minds at this point. You act like people aren't familiar with Aquaman and you are here to enlighten us.
Wasn't that when you suggested Aquaman couldn't hurt heralds? So I posted a scan of Amazo saying "You hurt me"
I feel like I'm at a constant defense and being accused of lying or other stuff I haven't even done in this thread.
I've yet to Overwank AC, or to place him in a bracket that comics haven't already. It's just been a game so far of what people are willing to accept.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No he doesn't, not any more than Hulk calls on more gamma energy from an unknown source. Don't be a wordsmith.
I think of that as Hulk having a connection to a source similar to Flash and the Speed force in innate energy.
BB calls on energy through his attenna so we know this isn't natural. Thor even comments he's increasing his natural strength and speed so it's not really that their base it's that that's his actual strength and speed getting boosted.
A better illustration would be Superman sun amping. Which isn't really natural and the OP in threads usually specify if he's allowed to.
I should clarify my statements earlier because I think they're being interpreted incorrectly.
Arthur can and has fought hand to hand with Herald and Trans level beings before, but in straight h2h he can really only hang for a couple of panels. He cannot engage the likes of Gladiator, WW, Hulk, etc with any hope of winning or even doing serious harm. He's a class 100 brick, but closer to Thing level strength than Hulk strength. Probably comparable durability to Thing too mmm
Originally posted by Cogito
I should clarify my statements earlier because I think they're being interpreted incorrectly.Arthur can and has fought hand to hand with Herald and Trans level beings before, but in straight h2h he can really only hang for a couple of panels. He cannot engage the likes of Gladiator, WW, Hulk, etc with any hope of winning or even doing serious harm. He's a class 100 brick, but closer to Thing level strength than Hulk strength. Probably comparable durability to Thing too mmm
Thing might have better durability Piercing wise, I doubt all around durability is comparable to Arthur who has some pretty impressive feats if you like to see them. Probably has actual better strength feats then The Thing as well
Your statement is better now that it's been revised, I honestly see BB the same way. I don't see him beating Hulk, Gladiator, or WW in pure hand to hand unless there's context to it.
I'd put Blackagar at Thing level as well. Which the Handbook does as well.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Wasn't that when you suggested Aquaman couldn't hurt heralds? So I posted a scan of Amazo saying "You hurt me"I feel like I'm at a constant defense and being accused of lying or other stuff I haven't even done in this thread.
I've yet to Overwank AC, or to place him in a bracket that comics haven't already. It's just been a game so far of what people are willing to accept.
I never said he couldn't "hurt" heralds, but you are playing word games because you said I implied such. I implied and stated also with many others he can't hang with true heralds in hand to hand whereas Black Bolt can.....in part because he is a true herald.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Thing might have better durability Piercing wise, I doubt all around durability is comparable to Arthur who has some pretty impressive feats if you like to see them. Probably has actual better strength feats then The Thing as wellYour statement is better now that it's been revised, I honestly see BB the same way. I don't see him beating Hulk, Gladiator, or WW in pure hand to hand unless there's context to it.
I'd put Blackagar at Thing level as well. Which the Handbook does as well.
He's above Thing level, dude. Thing is tough and competent as a fighter, but would not do as well against heralds. BB is better in ever category. I don't believe I have seen many speed and agility showings or narratives for Thing like I have BB.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Thing might have better durability Piercing wise, I doubt all around durability is comparable to Arthur who has some pretty impressive feats if you like to see them. Probably has actual better strength feats then The Thing as wellYour statement is better now that it's been revised, I honestly see BB the same way. I don't see him beating Hulk, Gladiator, or WW in pure hand to hand unless there's context to it.
I'd put Blackagar at Thing level as well. Which the Handbook does as well.
Arthur's piercing durability seems to have improved in DCnU, and he has solid blunt force durability so I think Thing level is about right.
I put BB above Thing in strength. And some of the hits he's taken (such as from Thanos) would clean Arthur's clock, imo.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
He's above Thing level, dude. Thing is tough and competent as a fighter, but would not do as well against heralds. BB is a little better is ever category. I don't believe I have seen many speed and agility showings or narratives for Thing like I have BB.
Thing has fought Thor and Hulk as well the difference is Thing has to stick to H2h. I honestly don't think trading hits with someone makes you their physical equal.
The Marvel Handbook is actually right on BB's placement and that's below Thor and Hulk physically. Hell Namor has fought Sentry I'm sure you don't think their equals though, Leonidas had the best point in all of this saying they can hang for a bit but their not winning by physicals.
Thing vs Thor
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120293/4868279-thing+vs+mighty+thor.jpg
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Compare that to Thor saying he was just trying to stun BB not torture him, Thor shows restraint when he's in combat
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132322/2547506-thorvsblackbolt03.jpg
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111219076/5265030-0976618964-45151.jpg
Originally posted by Cogito
Arthur's piercing durability seems to have improved in DCnU, and he has solid blunt force durability so I think Thing level is about right.I put BB above Thing in strength. And some of the hits he's taken (such as from Thanos) would clean Arthur's clock, imo.
Which makes little sense IMO. He should be easy to fillet.
Originally posted by Cogito
Arthur's piercing durability seems to have improved in DCnU, and he has solid blunt force durability so I think Thing level is about right.I put BB above Thing in strength. And some of the hits he's taken (such as from Thanos) would clean Arthur's clock, imo.
Aquaman has took city busting attacks, fell from Orbit at speeds faster then thought and remained conscious, A blast from Starro that kod Orion. I don't think Thing level in durability is correct.
In regards to strength I don't think Thing matches Arthur by feats but I'm sure Thing gives Arthur a fight.
Didn't Thanos recently get beaten by The Ultimates? If we're comparing Beatings, Aquaman took a beating from a guy who oneshotted Superman.
Originally posted by EcstaticGraceI don't know the context here, but Thor pretty casually killed an amped Thing 👆
Thing vs Thor
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120293/4868279-thing+vs+mighty+thor.jpg
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Guess so then, I'd be willing to accept him equal footing Grappling powerhouses or Overpowering someone I just don't agree with trading punches as an indication of strength classes.
In regards to Thanos he kept Bolt alive for a reason didn't he? I remember him saying so? Same with when Thanos beat up Namor.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Thing has fought Thor and Hulk as well the difference is Thing has to stick to H2h. I honestly don't think trading hits with someone makes you their physical equal.The Marvel Handbook is actually right on BB's placement and that's below Thor and Hulk physically. Hell Namor has fought Sentry I'm sure you don't think their equals though, Leonidas had the best point in all of this saying they can hang for a bit but their not winning by physicals.
Thing vs Thor
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120293/4868279-thing+vs+mighty+thor.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120293/4868280-thing+vs+mighty+thor2.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120293/4868299-thing+vs+mighty+thor3.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120293/4868305-thing+vs+mighty+thor4.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120293/4868307-thing+vs+mighty+thor5.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120293/4868311-thing+vs+mighty+thor6.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120293/4868312-thing+vs+mighty+thor7.jpgCompare that to Thor saying he was just trying to stun BB not torture him, Thor shows restraint when he's in combat
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132322/2547506-thorvsblackbolt03.jpg
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111219076/5265030-0976618964-45151.jpg
The Thing was possessed by Loki and had his strength doubled.
