Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Guess so then, I'd be willing to accept him equal footing Grappling powerhouses or Overpowering someone I just don't agree with trading punches as an indication of strength classes.In regards to Thanos he kept Bolt alive for a reason didn't he? I remember him saying so? Same with when Thanos beat up Namor.
But for the last time, we aren't talking about strength classes, this is hand to hand. Hand to hand examples carry more weight.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Wasn't BB suggested as Stronger then AM based on who he has fought?To be honest HTH the little skill Aquaman has I think it's more flushed out then BB h2h,
It doesn't matter, the point is the TOPIC isn't asking who is stronger, it's asking who would win in hand to hand. You can't seem to grasp this and retain it and it's talking you in all sorts of crazy directions. Combat skill, speed agility, the ability to think on your feat, all of that comes into play. Cap and Karate Kid have beat guys three and four tiers above their strength level. I'm talking the guy who can go TOE TO TOE with Thor and Gladiator and show evenly. And for the record, I do believe BB is a little stronger, but I'm not arguing that point.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
It doesn't matter, the point is the TOPIC isn't asking who is stronger, it's asking who would win in hand to hand. You can't seem to grasp this and retain it and it's talking you in all sorts of crazy directions. Combat skill, speed agility, the ability to think on your feat, all of that comes into play. Cap and Karate Kid have beat guys three and four tiers above their strength level. I'm talking the guy who can go TOE TO TOE with Thor and Gladiator and show evenly. And for the record, I do believe BB is a little stronger, but I'm not arguing that point.
Out of curiosity then outside the discussion why do you think BB is stronger?
Aquaman has pretty good feats in regards to Combat skill, speed agility, and thinking on his feet.
Combat skill against WW in Aquaman Annual 2
Speed Agility against Wonder Woman and Orm in Throne of Atlantis
Thinking on his feet against Martian Manhunter in Aquaman #36 (I believe is the issue number) Maelstrom arc regardless
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Out of curiosity then outside the discussion why do you think BB is stronger?Aquaman has pretty good feats in regards to Combat skill, speed agility, and thinking on his feet.
Combat skill against WW in Aquaman Annual 2
Speed Agility against Wonder and Orm in Throne of Atlantis
Thinking on his feet against Martian Manhunter in Aquaman #36! (I believe)
Again, because of this HISTORY of the character. We have yet to see if this new spin on AM is going to stick. Second factor is where they rank in terms of power tiers in their respective universes and who they typically fight. Yes, this isn't a direct reflection of strength, but it still carries some weight.
But like I said, I'm not arguing it. Their strength levels are close enough for debate and it's simply not that serious to me.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Again, because of this HISTORY of the character. We have yet to see if this new spin on AM is going to stick. Second factor is where they rank in terms of power tiers in their respective universes and who they typically fight. Yes, this isn't a direct reflection of strength, but it still carries some weight.
So no actual strength feats?
You do realize at times Namor and Thing fight the same people as BB, by your own admission so does Captain America.
Whether AM is going to stick it's been pretty consistent so far. Hell it's been consistent since Mid Post-Crisis ongoing. The last chapter had him knocking back Mammoth with a punch,
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
So no actual strength feats?You do realize at times Namor and Thing fight the same people as BB, by your own admission so does Captain America.
Whether AM is going to stick it's been pretty consistent so far. Hell it's been consistent since Mid Post-Crisis ongoing. The last chapter had him knocking back Mammoth with a punch,
Why are you insistent on arguing about strength when I said twice I'm not willing to do that? Are you unable take no for an answer? You even edited out my statement about this when you quoted me. I've answered your question, take it or leave it.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Why are you insistent on arguing about strength when I said twice I'm not willing to do that? Are you unable take no for an answer?
I'm just curious about the logic that punching someone and taking a punch from someone means you can physically lift as much of them.
It's new to me, I'm not trying to argue primarily on strength. You brought up requested areas to focus on and I referenced them. Your suggesting that we should ignore all of Aquaman's feats because we don't know if they'll stick? When he probably for the most part has better feats before Flashpoint. Difference is writers suggest he can hang in a certain crowd Flashpoint up..
It all just doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'm just curious about the logic that punching someone and taking a punch from someone means you can physically lift as much of them.It's new to me, I'm not trying to argue primarily on strength. You brought up requested areas to focus on and I referenced them. Your suggesting that we should ignore all of Aquaman's feats because we don't know if they'll stick? When he probably for the most part has better feats before Flashpoint. Difference is writers suggest he can hang in a certain crowd Flashpoint up..
It all just doesn't make sense.
There you go. I never said I would IGNORE the feats, I'm simply saying that I'm not willing to move him UP into a higher tier just yet based on the larger part of his history. You can disagree with that. Rebirth is going on now with is yet another change universal change for D.C. BB tier level has been consistent by contrast.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
If a boxer beats up a weight lifter and they both get the same amount of hits in its confirmed the Boxer can lift as much as the weight lifter?
If a pro bowl pass rusher constantly stacks offensive tackles and disgards them like babies, but the tackles usually bench press more than the pass rusher, who is "stronger?" There is something called functional strength and that's what applies in combat.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
There you go. I never said I would IGNORE the feats, I'm simply saying that I'm not willing to move him UP into a higher tier just yet based on the larger part of his history. You can disagree with that. Rebirth is going on now with is yet another change universal change for D.C. BB tier level has been consistent by contrast.
AC has been consistent in the New52. Hell he's been consistent I'd say since 2004 up and that's like 20 years. Rebirth hasn't changed the New52 continuity for Aquaman he carried over from New52 so I don't get the Rebirth mention. So I guess I will agree to disagree.
I'm fine with suggesting a character can hang with characters in a certain group based on scans but keep in mind all I'm suggesting was Thing and Namor have done that as well. I do however think it's not fair to assume a character is as strong or close in strength just because they can take a punch (durability) or hark another character (Striking)
It's funny cause that's the same logic this user uses on another site to suggest Wonder Woman is stronger then multiple Kryptonians
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
AC has been consistent in the New52. Hell he's been consistent I'd say since 2004 up and that's like 20 years. Rebirth hasn't changed the New52 continuity for Aquaman he carried over from New52 so I don't get the Rebirth mention. So I guess I will agree to disagree.I'm fine with suggesting a character can hang with characters in a certain group based on scans but keep in mind all I'm suggesting was Thing and Namor have done that as well. I do however think it's not fair to assume a character is as strong or close in strength just because they can take a punch (durability) or hark another character (Striking)
It's funny cause that's the same logic this user uses on another site to suggest Wonder Woman is stronger then multiple Kryptonians
The difference is BB is portrayed closer to or as EQUALS against said characters.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
The difference is BB is portrayed closer to or as EQUALS against said characters.
In strength? Or physicals? Not really. Thor said himself he was trying to stun BB not harm him in anyway continously, and BB was amping throughout their fight. His fight against Hulk primarily had him resort to AOE, same with Sphinx. His one fight that's been truly impressive in a physical standpoint as peers was against Gladiator and given said history that's questionable, on both characters part. It's similar to Thanos losing to The Ultimates in that regard.
To be honest BB's history supports his placement on the Strength chart.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'd consider striking power as Initial strength as how much force you can put in a strike at a given moment so in a way Explosive strength. Street guys have this at times on that level though. Functional strength was an interesting mention.
All of that. Linear "weight room" strength only matters if that is the measure you are using. We are talking about functional strength, the function in this case being combat. BB's strength is excellent based on showings.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
In strength? Or physicals? Not really. Thor said himself he was trying to stun BB not harm him in anyway continously, and BB was amping throughout their fight. His fight against Hulk primarily had him resort to AOE, same with Sphinx. His one fight that's been truly impressive in a physical standpoint as peers was against Gladiator and given said history that's questionable, on both characters part. It's similar to Thanos losing to The Ultimates in that regard.To be honest BB's history supports his placement on the Strength chart.
No, it really isn't. First of all, he's fought Gladiator evenly numerous times. Secondly, Thanos was FAKING. Third, it's doesn't matter if he was amping, 4th, neither Thor nor BB were out for the kill.